Cycling commuters, a diminishing breed?

[Tin Pot]

It's not commuters that clog up the roads in London it's small businesses; delivery vans, plumbers, carpenters, builders, taxi drivers, etc.

 

[ManiaMuse]

One for the tin foil hat brigade, but there's something in the fact the traffic in Manchester is absolutely horrendous at the moment, the public transport system is a complete and utter shambles, the Metrolink an embarrassment to the city, I don't think it's down to volume of traffic increasing, but more the ongoing roadworks and "improvement" measures.

Look at the guided bus way and the trouble that has caused during it's construction, it's finished now, has the traffic eased coming in from Salford / Leigh down the East Lancs, is everyone using the buses now? Currently Piccadilly bus station is closed for "resurfacing", they're closing half of Portland Street to cars, the Mancunian way has collapsed, The second crossing for the Metrolink, how on earth is this going to help? A tram breaks down in Bury, it affects all services, the points fail at Cornbrook, all services are affected, someone drives on to the tracks at Holt town? all services are affected, the system is a joke, and downright dangerous at peak times. TFGM have a lot to answer for, even to us not wearing tin foil hats they've thrown their toys out of the pram since the congestion charge was dropped.

Mancunian way is a bit unfortunate, nobody can really plan when old infrastructure is going to decide to give up due to the weather and cause a load of expensive and difficult to repair damage in the process. However it does seem like the contractors are taking their sweet time and rumours suggest may not reopen fully until August despite them saying they would be working 24/7 to have it finished by now!

I wish the council would plan/delay other roadworks accordingly though. I was amazed to discover the other week when cycling accross town for a work errand that they have completely closed Portland Street for apparently not urgent roadworks despite all the tramworks and Mancunian Way causing enough congestion as it is. Why can't they have just delayed that a bit instead of doing everything at the same time and causing even more gridlock grrr!

 

[400bhp]

Mancunian way is a bit unfortunate, nobody can really plan when old infrastructure is going to decide to give up due to the weather and cause a load of expensive and difficult to repair damage in the process. However it does seem like the contractors are taking their sweet time and rumours suggest may not reopen fully until August despite them saying they would be working 24/7 to have it finished by now!

I wish the council would plan/delay other roadworks accordingly though. I was amazed to discover the other week when cycling accross town for a work errand that they have completely closed Portland Street for apparently not urgent roadworks despite all the tramworks and Mancunian Way causing enough congestion as it is. Why can't they have just delayed that a bit instead of doing everything at the same time and causing even more gridlock grrr!

You see, I don't give a fig about roadworks. I choose to cycle, or get the tram.

Thus is an observation of your post and is not meant to be personal but your words really do reflect car drivers' inability to see themselves as the problem.

I'd quite like a mile radius car free zone in central Manchester to be honest.

 

[ManiaMuse]

You see, I don't give a fig about roadworks. I choose to cycle, or get the tram.

Thus is an observation of your post and is not meant to be personal but your words really do reflect car drivers' inability to see themselves as the problem.

I'd quite like a mile radius car free zone in central Manchester to be honest.

Huh? Your reply seems oddly aggressive. However I do care about roadworks and I do hate congestion just as much on my bike as when I am driving. It makes drivers get frustrated and do irrational things, pedestrians jump out between traffic without looking, forces me to have to filter which is not as safe, slower and less enjoyable than cycling with free moving traffic. If the roadworks/tramworks were better coordinated that would mean the congestion would be limited to smaller areas for shorter periods and my cycling experience as well as that of other cyclists or potential cyclists would be improved. Surely that is a good thing?

I'm a cyclist for commuting to work 5 days a week whatever the weather and take the bus/train if going into the city centre on the rare occasion I'm not on my bike. Hardly use my car at all apart from in the evenings/weekends and driving between cities mostly on motorways. I wouldn't mind restrictions on driving in the city centre either but you have to be realistic and accept that cycle commuting won't suddenly jump up 10-20%+ just because you have made it more awkward/expensive to drive to work.

 

[al78]

I'd quite like a mile radius car free zone in central Manchester to be honest.

I can guess what the reaction to that would be. Something along the lines of the reaction to the proposed congestion charge, except more militant in nature would be my guess.

 

[BEHMOTH66]

Exactly! The Manchester congestion charge was imperfect AFAICT but better than the alternative that Manchester got instead. The vote was debated on the incorrect premise that a No C Charge vote meant no change, rather than the councils would have to try to tackle growing congestion in some less desirable way.

I have to live drive cycle in Salford & Manchester the councils have done everything they can to slow traffic down and cause this chaos, why? because these two councils are greedy money hungry self serving Tw@7s who on the whole want to bleed us dry because they cannot efficiently run a piss up in a brewery

 

[mjr]

these two councils are greedy money hungry self serving Tw@7s who on the whole want to bleed us dry because they cannot efficiently run a piss up in a brewery

So why did you elect them? At least visitors like me can boggle and only be blamed for not electing a national government with enough backbone to impose decent design standards yet. Cycling provision in my home borough is half decent (despite what dell says).

 

[al78]

The Dutch say there is no bad weather but only the wrong clothing. If you are exposing yourself then it is DEFINITELY the wrong clothing!

A tired old cliche which is often nonsense. There is no clothing that will keep out torrential rain for more than a minute. There is no clothing that will counter the effect of 70 mph wind gusts. There is no clothing that will magically melt all the ice from the road etc etc. Unless you have an interest in cycling it is, the most rational choice from the individual perspective is to use the mode of transport which is fastest and/or most comfortable, that is the car for most people.

 

[mjr]

There is no clothing that will keep out torrential rain for more than a minute. There is no clothing that will counter the effect of 70 mph wind gusts. There is no clothing that will magically melt all the ice from the road etc etc.

I can don full waterproof clothing if I want and it'll let in a bit around the face and wrists but most of me will be dry for hours. Wind gusts are annoying but I'm used to dealing with them after so many years living on the fens and levels. Ice can be overcome with studded tyres and it's not like any motor vehicles except tractors can move if it gets too bad!

Unless you have an interest in cycling it is, the most rational choice from the individual perspective is to use the mode of transport which is fastest and/or most comfortable, that is the car for most people.

A tired old cliche which is often nonsense. Cars are driven by people who can't see where they're going in torrential rain. Cars become unstable and get stuff blown into them by strong winds. Cars slide on ice without warning, sometimes leaving their occupants upside down in waterways to drown. Unless you have an interest in motoring, the most rational choice from the individual perspective is to use the mode of transport which is fastest for urban/suburban journeys and healthiest, that is cycling for most people. One reason that this isn't realised more widely is that even some cyclists like to talk up how cycling is a tough choice and how jolly brave they are for doing it! If you're not finding cycle-commuting comfortable, you're doing it wrong IMO.

 

[BEHMOTH66]

So why did you elect them? At least visitors like me can boggle and only be blamed for not electing a national government with enough backbone to impose decent design standards yet. Cycling provision in my home borough is half decent (despite what dell says).

I didn't elect them my peers did. But I can tell you now I didn't vote for them and cycling here is awful cycling lanes that are not maintained poorly designed lanes that take up that much space all it has done is enrage motorist, I don't think the councils think it out or have even spoken to cyclist about where they think it is needed or are they what they really want

 

[mjr]

I didn't elect them my peers did. But I can tell you now I didn't vote for them and

Well, I hope you'll do more to replace them with someone better for cycling next time...

cycling here is awful cycling lanes that are not maintained poorly designed lanes that take up that much space all it has done is enrage motorist, I don't think the councils think it out or have even spoken to cyclist about where they think it is needed or are they what they really want

I think it may be worse than that: they're picking and choosing which cyclists they speak to. Recently I questioned the IMO-unusual problem of Manchester and why it's being left behind on https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/manchester-why-not-as-nice-as-other-cities.194655/

 

[MarkF]

Same as ever in Bradford, extremely low, because it's extremely hilly. I cycle to work (a place with 1000's of employees) and doubt 5 others do, there are about 20 security bike cages, I reckon 15+ have rusty padlocks on them and haven't been used for years. I used to see 10x more cycle commuters when I commuted to Leeds centre.

 

[jay clock]

Same as ever in Bradford, extremely low, because it's extremely hilly. I cycle to work (a place with 1000's of employees) and doubt 5 others do, there are about 20 security bike cages, I reckon 15+ have rusty padlocks on them and haven't been used for years. I used to see 10x more cycle commuters when I commuted to Leeds centre.

+ 1 for any mention of hills. This is always forgotten in any comparison of UK and NL. I live in Winchester where there are a couple of major hills in and out of town, and quite busy narrow roads, and I can fully understand why Joe Public doesn't fancy cycling up them. There is a natural route along the river to Southampton but that is a narrow muddy footpath with bikes banned - could easily be converted into a cycle way

 

[mjr]

+ 1 for any mention of hills. This is always forgotten in any comparison of UK and NL

Yeah that's why we hear this again and again and again because it's soooo forgotten. OK, the UK's top cycling city is Cambridge which is admittedly fairly flat (still not Dutch flat, though and we build far steeper cycling bridges than they do) but no-one can accuse other top cities like Bristol of being flat and the Dutch-flat South Holland District in Lincolnshire doesn't have much more than average cycling. Infrastructure (awful in Lincs, OK in Bristol, improving in Cambridge and London) seems much more important than topography, but try convincing CycleChatters of that

 

[al78]

I can don full waterproof clothing if I want and it'll let in a bit around the face and wrists but most of me will be dry for hours. Wind gusts are annoying but I'm used to dealing with them after so many years living on the fens and levels. Ice can be overcome with studded tyres and it's not like any motor vehicles except tractors can move if it gets too bad!


A tired old cliche which is often nonsense. Cars are driven by people who can't see where they're going in torrential rain. Cars become unstable and get stuff blown into them by strong winds. Cars slide on ice without warning, sometimes leaving their occupants upside down in waterways to drown. Unless you have an interest in motoring, the most rational choice from the individual perspective is to use the mode of transport which is fastest for urban/suburban journeys and healthiest, that is cycling for most people. One reason that this isn't realised more widely is that even some cyclists like to talk up how cycling is a tough choice and how jolly brave they are for doing it! If you're not finding cycle-commuting comfortable, you're doing it wrong IMO.

Trying to flip my post round doesn't work, but nice try. All of the problems you mention with driving also apply to cycling, often even more so. At least much of the time when cars slide on ice they don't throw the driver down hard onto tarmac. No ice tyres are not a magic bullet, you still will slide and come off occasionally, especially if there is rutted snow on top of the ice which causes the wheels to squirm sideways leading to instability (Marathon Winters are not that good on significant lying snow, the snow sticks to the tyre and the studs are then useless). People don't drive due to an interest in motoring, they drive because they need to get somewhere and for the majority of people the car is the best choice, when speed, comfort and convenience are taken into account. If cycling really was better for most people then most people would be cycling, but they are not, that is because the thought of cycling on days like today where 30 hours of continuous rain are forecast, and having to interact with motor traffic, and high vulnerability in the case of something going wrong, is about as appealing as having their nipples tazered. Sorry, but that is the reality in the UK, trying to hide from it by denial will achieve nothing.