Cycling in Holland - superb or what?!

[Glow worm]

Hi all- just back from a few days in Holland. I cycled from home to Harwich then took the ferry to The Hook then biked on to Central Amsterdam and back- around 250 miles round trip. At risk of stating the bleedin' obvious, Holland was everything I expected it to be for cyclists and so much more besides. And apart from the trip being great fun and a brilliant experience, (albeit not nearly long enough), the following points were my main observations on the trip.

1. The contrast between the last 10 or so miles from Mistley to Harwich, and the cycling on the Dutch side could not have been more stark. A fast, busy B road on the UK side, with dodgy and dangerous overtakes galore. God knows what continental cyclists getting off the boat for the 1st time in Harwich make of it.

2. All the paths I travelled on were fully integrated and actually went where you wanted to go. No isolated 50 yards of red paint sprayed into the gutter like here. Totally seamless, wide, excellent smooth surfaces, safe and brilliant. I can't describe accurately here how they manage to weave the cycle paths around roundabouts so well, but it works a treat. Often, cars will stop to let you cross. I nearly fell off my bike the first time that happened.

3. All roads, even minor ones have provision for bikes, whether as a separate mini road adjacent, or wide strips down the side designed in such a way as to give motorists the impression that it is the bicycle that has priority. There were no end of underpasses, even for quieter roads, so you just sail through instead of dicing with death trying to cross. Also, at traffic lights, cyclists get their own button to change the lights.

4. Cycling seems to be part of the day to day life of most people. I passed barely a house that didn't have bikes outside it. Yes car ownership is high (I don't have the figures but I seem to recall it's a similar level to here), but becasue of the culture, and the provision, people choose to use heir bikes. I would guess that maybe only about 5-10 % of cyclists wore helmets. I took mine off at the ferry and it hung off the back of the bike until I was back in Harwich!

5. It was great to see so many older people cycling. I saw a group of older women - probably about a dozen or so, who looked a bit like W.I. types- all out cycling somewhere or other. I just can't imagine that here. They all looked pretty fit too- I was overtaken by no end of septegenerians.

6. Brings me to my next point- there didn't seem to be any of that silly competetive crap some cyclists do over here. Not having a competetive bone in my body, I've always let those cursed with such an affliction get on with, it if that's what they get off on. It was therefore so refreshing to see a couple of roadie types get overtaken by a lad in wellies on a masive heavy Dutch bike and not bat an eyelid. I was also able to overtake slower cyclists safe in the knowledge that a minute of so later no silly arse I'd just passed would be pissing about at my back wheel.

7. Driver behaviour seemed pretty good. I had no incidents whatsoever with drivers. Not even in central Amsterdam. This is utterly unthinkable for covering a similar distance over here. Remarkably- Volvos there come fitted with indicators that actually work!

It wasn't all plain sailing. Mrs G flew and I met her at out hotel. Her trains from Schipol Airport to town were all cancelled, shattering my illusion of a first rate public transport system. She had trouble on the way back too. Another point was I found the signage for the main cycle routes to be pretty crap. I wanted to follow the main coast route for the first 20 miles, but there were few signs and those I saw I found confusing. I had my GPS so was fine, but if you were planning on relying on the signs you may struggle. Also, all cycle paths I used were shared use with mopeds. This was fine but took a bit of getting used to, as I had to remember to move over to let them pass (I guess I'm programmed to hear a moped behind me and assume it's on the road- in Holland it's more likely to be on the path and trying to get past).

All told- a great few days in constant warm sunshine. Great fun sauntering past all the cars waiting to board the ferry and then being allowed on first. Parking the bike on board was a doddle and the Stena ferries both ways were brand new and I had a really comfortable cabin.

We are absolutely light years behind the Dutch in terms of provision. I don't know what the answer is, but we have a hell of a long way to go.

 

[snorri]

Oh No! Another convert to the cause of segregation!

 

[slowmotion]

It's good to hear you had fun.

 

[Glow worm]

Oh No! Another convert to the cause of segregation!

The cycle paths I used went tended to go though more scenic areas like the dunes that would be buggered if you allowed cars through them. Parts of the route were on roads though, and they felt much safer than over here because of their design and driver behaviour. I'll try to attach a pic of one.

 

[Supersonicscientist]

4. Cycling seems to be part of the day to day life of most people. I passed barely a house that didn't have bikes outside it. Yes car ownership is high (I don't have the figures but I seem to recall it's a similar level to here), but becasue of the culture, and the provision, people choose to use heir bikes. I would guess that maybe only about 5-10 % of cyclists wore helmets. I took mine off at the ferry and it hung off the back of the bike until I was back in Harwich!

5. It was great to see so many older people cycling. I saw a group of older women - probably about a dozen or so, who looked a bit like W.I. types- all out cycling somewhere or other. I just can't imagine that here. They all looked pretty fit too- I was overtaken by no end of septegenerians.

6. Brings me to my next point- there didn't seem to be any of that silly competetive crap some cyclists do over here. Not having a competetive bone in my body, I've always let those cursed with such an affliction get on with, it if that's what they get off on. It was therefore so refreshing to see a couple of roadie types get overtaken by a lad in wellies on a masive heavy Dutch bike and not bat an eyelid. I was also able to overtake slower cyclists safe in the knowledge that a minute of so later no silly arse I'd just passed would be pissing about at my back wheel.

7. Driver behaviour seemed pretty good. I had no incidents whatsoever with drivers. Not even in central Amsterdam. This is utterly unthinkable for covering a similar distance over here. Remarkably- Volvos there come fitted with indicators that actually work!


We are absolutely light years behind the Dutch in terms of provision. I don't know what the answer is, but we have a hell of a long way to go.

No argument about the provision of well maintained cycle ways, I guess the sheer number of folk who cycle is the telling point that and the fact that the planning has always included cyclists whereas here it is the car 1st 2nd 3rd and everything else last ..
I love the fact you can tootle along at your own pace and not be worried by some flash type trying to rip you a new one ,most folk are polite and have a very good road knowledge ,oh and the fact that bike parking at train stations is very well catered for .
All in all a great place to visit and to cycle in ,I'm back in Holland next month so will be taking advantage of the use of one of those heavy Dutch bikes .

 

[snorri]

I'll try to attach a pic of one.

My comment was in jest, I thought perhaps the laughing smiley???

I agree with you, it is a doubly depressing experience to come off a ferry at Harwich, holiday nearing an end and a return to the UK transport network.

 

[slowmotion]

I agree with you, it is a doubly depressing experience to come off a ferry at Harwich, holiday nearing and end and a return to the UK transport network.

I drove back from Harwich docks with the bike in the back because there was no way to guarantee a place on the train to London, either outward or back. Not much use if you have a ferry to catch. Just for a laugh, I thought I would count the number of bikes I passed on my side of the road. For the whole trip from Harwich to Shepherds Bush, west London the grand total was .....eight. That was mid-September 2009. My Dutch friends simply refused to believe me.

 

[Nigeyy]

Yes, I was cycling in the Netherlands in the mid 1990's -wouldn't think it has changed that much with respect to cycling resources. I was really impressed to see cycle paths from one village to another, and even bicycle traffic lights. I also loved the card controlled bollards that would disappear into the ground for delivery vans -otherwise not letting motorized vehicles into pedestrianized areas. It's a culture that has embraced cycling as a transport much more than the UK/USA.

It was also clear that they segregated cyclists from automobiles very often -honestly not a bad thing from my perspective. I'd be all for that if it was done similarly, with similar cultural attitudes (at least judging from my experience back then).

It would be interesting to see what someone who is Dutch (or has lived in the Netherlands) think of their infrastructure over there in comparison -and if there are distinct disadvantages as well as our positive experiences.

 

[Glow worm]

I agree with you, it is a doubly depressing experience to come off a ferry at Harwich, holiday nearing and end and a return to the UK transport network.

One small consolation- I did manage to get out of Harwich the quiet way. No use if you're heading south, but for cyclists heading west and north, it may be of use. It's a bumpy old track past (almost through!) the oil refinery (and past some very bemused looking refinery workers), over a few blown over trees, past the sh*t farm and running the gauntlet of 100 yards or so of private farm track (but at 6-30 am I figured I'd be Ok). I'll try and attach the route below.

I didn't see one sign in Holland saying 'private no entry' or ' trespassers will be castrated' other such thing. Back in the UK, I'd seen 3 or 4 within the first 10 minutes.

 

[steve52]

i just had a baldric moment! next time any town in britain elects a mayor lets eletct a dutch one!!!! simples huh?

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

I think the Dutch segregated approach probably works very well because it is real, not just some pathetic attempt to pay lip service to cycling like the cycle lanes here. You have to remember, though, that they have been developing that infrastructure for about 120 years now. (See this fascinating history lesson.)

If we could raise the resources to develop a similar infrastructure, remembering that this would mean ripping up a significant proportion of the existing road infrastructure and starting again, then segregation might stand a chance of working here (eventually). However, that is clearly pie in the sky, so we should stop playing at it and accept that we have a shared space approach in this country, not a segregated approach. Given this context, we would clearly be better off if a lot of the inadequate cycling "facilities" were removed. The two systems don't mix well as we have seen in many other threads.

Also, attention should be paid to efforts to change driver attitudes rather than painting roads.

 

[Glow worm]

I think the Dutch segregated approach probably works very well because it is real, not just some pathetic attempt to pay lip service to cycling like the cycle lanes here. You have to remember, though, that they have been developing that infrastructure for about 120 years now. (See this fascinating history lesson.)

If we could raise the resources to develop a similar infrastructure, remembering that this would mean ripping up a significant proportion of the existing road infrastructure and starting again, then segregation might stand a chance of working here (eventually). However, that is clearly pie in the sky, so we should stop playing at it and accept that we have a shared space approach in this country, not a segregated approach.

Interesting link that. Sets the context quite well. I'm all for shared space approach as well, but driver behaviour in the UK is just not up to it at present. Folks like us can cope with shared use fine- we're well used to dealing with the minority of errant motorists. This does nothing for folk who would like to take up cycling but percieve (perhaps wrongly) the dangers as being prohibitive. My feeling is that yes- we can't rip up all the existing infrastructure, but there are some examples where safe, wide, well surfaced paths along the Dutch model could be created- paths that actually go somehwere.

Here in the Fens for example, there are countelss examples of short stretches of dangerous fast A roads, linking towns no more than 10 miles apart, where a separate cycling 'highway' would be of enormous value. No inexperienced cyclist or novice would dream of cycling along the A10 for example or the A47. Use compulsory land purchase if necessary to stop all the pissing about and just get on with it. I'm convinced this would lead to an increase in cycling with more drivers also becoming cyclists, driver behaviour would improve making other shared use routes less daunting for the new, inexperienced cyclist.

 

[Mad at urage]

4. Cycling seems to be part of the day to day life of most people. I passed barely a house that didn't have bikes outside it. Yes car ownership is high (I don't have the figures but I seem to recall it's a similar level to here), but becasue of the culture, and the provision, people choose to use their bikes. I would guess that maybe only about 5-10 % of cyclists wore helmets. I took mine off at the ferry and it hung off the back of the bike until I was back in Harwich!

This morning my car was being collected by the garage to do some work on the brakes. Chap came to get the keys, there was me in "I 2 work" logo'd Tshirt, Gore windstoppers and cycle shoes...
"Are you working from home today then?" he asks?
I point to the T and say "No, I'm cycling in"
"Wow! Is that for charity or something?"
"No, I usually cycle in."
"Why, when you've got that" he pointed to the car.

To most in this country (including some of my family) the very idea of choosing a vehicle that takes physical effort over one where you relax in an armchair is anathema. We suffer from a 'Lazy is best' culture. It is refreshing to visit a place where that is not the norm.

 

[snorri]

I felt like banging my head on a wall last week after a site visit with a roads engineer to a segregated path alongside a dual carriageway during which I was showing him the inadequacies of the path, poor design, poor construction and minimal maintenance. He appeared to accept all of the points I had made as being valid criticism.
During a bit of small talk at the end of the two hour inspection he said he couldn't understand why cyclists were "taking such a big risk" by cycling on the dual carriageway instead of the segregated path. I said the reason was glaringly obvious but he just couldn't understand the decision of cyclists to use the road might have been influenced by the pathetic state of the segregated path.

 

[psmiffy]

I cycled in Germany and Holland in the 60s as a young lad. - The video link certainly puts into context why there are so many cycle facilities in Holland - rather glosses over the fact that a lot of the system was improved and extended by a certain Austrian gentleman in the early 40s - and at the same time illustrates to an extent why it will never (never say never but) happen in the UK - simply there is no space.

However, many new build major roads do have the space - wide verges - due to the requirements of visibility - in the context of the cost of building many of these roads adding a good quality two way cycle path complete with overpasses and underpasses ala the Dutch model would not be that expensive - the justification for not doing so is that there is no demand - until there is positive discrimination in the design of roads cycle facilities will eithere be ignored or be inappropriatly designed add ins. Positive discrimination - and the necessary funding to carry it out - will only happen though when cyclists are seen to be a sufficiently large group within the electoral demographic - no coincindence that in the national and local elections in Holland and Germany that many politicians will appear on their election posters with their bicycles.