Cycling laws to be overhauled.

[skudupnorth]

One good thing MAY come out of this,more police on the roads trying to find rogue cyclists but all they end up doing is finally catching the real culprits like the speeders,phone users,red light jumpers and dangerous drivers. I could be wrong though seeing as the leaders seem to hate us none profit road users who need no fossil fuels other than cake to travel our miles !

 

[jarlrmai]

If that operation thing they did after a spate of cyclist fatalities (forgot the name) a while ago with officers stood by the roads in London, it seemed to largely consist of officers unaware of the law spouting bad or pointless advice at cyclists or restraining them for legal actions such as not wearing a helmet and in once case not realising they were stood on a cycle path and stopping a cyclist for riding on the 'pavement.'

 

[mjr]

The Coroner's and Justice Act 2009 states that magistrates must stick to sentencing guidelines unless it is in the interests of justice to do otherwise.

So they would need to justify why they gave a cyclist a driving ban. "Because if they had been driving a car I would have" isn't justification because the sentencing guidelines already make clear that they are separate offences.

Remember there are three magistrates. You are saying they would all agree to do something unjustifiable when appealed just because they don't like cyclists. And frankly if it ever actually was in the interests of justice because it indicated they were unsuitable to be on the road, why as cyclists would we opposed that.

So, finally, we agree that it is theoretically possible under current law: all that would be required is a good justification or a change to the sentencing guidelines, not the law.

And I can't be the only person who thinks after following a particular case very closely that three magistrates have in the past imposed an unjustifiable sentence for a road traffic offence (or in one case I remember, a non-offence).

One good thing MAY come out of this,more police on the roads trying to find rogue cyclists but all they end up doing is finally catching the real culprits like the speeders,phone users,red light jumpers and dangerous drivers. I could be wrong though seeing as the leaders seem to hate us none profit road users who need no fossil fuels other than cake to travel our miles !

I think you're wrong. We have many times seen more police on the roads trying to find rogue cyclists in "crackdowns", delaying perfectly law-abiding journeys while criminal motorists carry on definitely jumping red lights, definitely committing lighting offences and probably speeding in full view of us! When we've challenged the police, we've been told that only specially-trained police are allowed to stop motorists, while any old officer can stop a cyclist. There's no reason yet to think that the latest bike-bashing will achieve a better outcome.

 

[Profpointy]

[QUOTE 5349137, member: 9609"] < snipped>


I think if cyclists were in danger of points on their driving licences then they would be more likely to abide by our road laws and as such set a better example to cyclists who don't drive. I don't think compelling people to respect the law is a bad thing.[/QUOTE]

Well I dare say cyclists / or motorists would be more likely to obey the law if they were beheaded, but a sense of proportionality to the seriousness of the offence and potential harm to others seems reasonable to me. Surely you are not suggesting that the level of responsibility and seriousness needed for driving a car, never mind a truck, is similar to that required for cycling ? And yet we allow 5 year olds to ride bikes. Similarly I'd expect much stricter again rules and punishments for say captaining a ship or an airliner than for driving a car.

Robbing a bank is considered more serious than scrumping apples as I've said upthread

 

[Julia9054]

It is compulsory to ride on the cyclepath in France if there is one.
I've just been pulled over and told off by an officious bloody gendarme. Apparently the signs are perfectly clear - not to me they weren't - it looked like a bloody pavement.
Tiny, quiet little place - we weren't in anyone's way on the road. Grrrr!

 

[mjr]

It is compulsory to ride on the cyclepath in France if there is one.
I've just been pulled over and told off by an officious bloody gendarme. Apparently the signs are perfectly clear - not to me they weren't - it looked like a bloody pavement.
Tiny, quiet little place - we weren't in anyone's way on the road. Grrrr!

What's that got to do with the current proposed laws? Have they snuck in an attempt to compel cycle path use?

 

[Julia9054]

What's that got to do with the current proposed laws? Have they snuck in an attempt to compel cycle path use?

Was annoyed at a silly law. This seemed like the most appropriate thread for a little moan. You don't have to reply

 

[mjr]

Was annoyed at a silly law. This seemed like the most appropriate thread for a little moan. You don't have to reply

I don't have to, but I will feel free to reply and ask if I am baffled by the logical disconnect.

 

[OneArmedBandit]

It is compulsory to ride on the cyclepath in France if there is one.
I've just been pulled over and told off by an officious bloody gendarme. Apparently the signs are perfectly clear - not to me they weren't - it looked like a bloody pavement.
Tiny, quiet little place - we weren't in anyone's way on the road. Grrrr!

Gendarmes sometimes have their own take on the law, I don't know anywhere in France where that is actually a rule.

French cycling rules and guidelines are very sensible in my experience, including 1 metre distance from the kerb, taking primary and cyclists being permitted to go against the flow of traffic on one way roads if the speed limit is 30kmh or less in their highway code.

I have been told off by the gendarmes for headphones though, which are illegal.

 

[stoatsngroats]

We jus had 4 days in France, and had a blast!
No interference from gendarmes, even in Paris, so maybe just a piece of bad luck with someone having a bad day?

 

[skudupnorth]

I think you're wrong. We have many times seen more police on the roads trying to find rogue cyclists in "crackdowns", delaying perfectly law-abiding journeys while criminal motorists carry on definitely jumping red lights, definitely committing lighting offences and probably speeding in full view of us! When we've challenged the police, we've been told that only specially-trained police are allowed to stop motorists, while any old officer can stop a cyclist. There's no reason yet to think that the latest bike-bashing will achieve a better outcome.[/QUOTE]

Round our way we do not see much of a Police presence so rogue motorists get away with all manner of law breaking...… I even saw a learner driver jump a red the other day !!! So like I said we MAY see more officers if they want to catch all these killer cyclists but we all know the reality that our so called leaders will not want to spend anymore money on useful resources ! As long as we keep within the law then we will have nothing to worry about.

 

[mjr]

Round our way we do not see much of a Police presence so rogue motorists get away with all manner of law breaking...… I even saw a learner driver jump a red the other day !!! So like I said we MAY see more officers if they want to catch all these killer cyclists but we all know the reality that our so called leaders will not want to spend anymore money on useful resources ! As long as we keep within the law then we will have nothing to worry about.

Plenty of police on the roads I use. Driving still awful and laws mostly unenforced.

Even if we keep within the law, we can still be delayed by unfair policing, like I mentioned. One locally-famous case involved a legal (with front brake) fixed wheel cyclist being detained for using an "illegal" cycle, according to the officer. So I'm in no hurry to see non-roads-policing officers cracking down on cyclists again because it'll slow everyone down and erode one of the key reasons people cycle: because it's a faster journey than car-then-walk.

 

[skudupnorth]

Plenty of police on the roads I use. Driving still awful and laws mostly unenforced.

Even if we keep within the law, we can still be delayed by unfair policing, like I mentioned. One locally-famous case involved a legal (with front brake) fixed wheel cyclist being detained for using an "illegal" cycle, according to the officer. So I'm in no hurry to see non-roads-policing officers cracking down on cyclists again because it'll slow everyone down and erode one of the key reasons people cycle: because it's a faster journey than car-then-walk.

Better watch myself with my legal fixie

 

[classic33]

Plenty of police on the roads I use. Driving still awful and laws mostly unenforced.

Even if we keep within the law, we can still be delayed by unfair policing, like I mentioned. One locally-famous case involved a legal (with front brake) fixed wheel cyclist being detained for using an "illegal" cycle, according to the officer. So I'm in no hurry to see non-roads-policing officers cracking down on cyclists again because it'll slow everyone down and erode one of the key reasons people cycle: because it's a faster journey than car-then-walk.

I cycle because I'll never be allowed to drive. "Proving" to some folk that I can do what they feel can't be done. I was told I'd "never be able to cycle" for health reasons.

It's faster than walking over two miles round here. Shorter routes available when walking. And no worries over having to lock my trainers up when I get there.

I'm not a fan of the present road we seem to be headed down, forced onto off-road routes. I use a road vehicle, and as such expect to be allowed to use it where the law says I can. It's an attitude that has got me at odds with the local council. Who by the way don't have one councillour that has cycled since they were old enough to drive. The "cycling tsar" has never ridden a bike, but all route planning goes through her office.

If there is a change in the law, they'll have to go back on what they've already said. That being that licensing cyclist and registration of cyclists would cost more to implement than would be brought in by either scheme.

 

[skudupnorth]

They can keep bringing all the laws they want but they have proved they cannot Police the ones such as mobile phone use, speeding, drunk/drug drivers ect.........just carry on and enjoy with the hope that if they do add extra bodies on the ground,they will catch more law breakers whether they are driving or cycling. Law abiding people need not worry like everything in life,if you have nothing to hide then all is OK