Cycling leads to bone loss...

[asterix]

In addition to cycling I do rather heavy building work. I hope that evens things out a bit.. Both make me sweat in the warmer weather.

 

[henshaw11]

I wound up having a heel density measurement last year as part of a national survey thing being done (Biobank, if anyone's come across it). My OH was fine, mine showed borderline osteoporosis/osteopenia.

I've been trying to get it investigated via my GP - been round the blood test loop a few times, at least I now know I've got an enlarged prostate ! - but since I'm not an 'at risk' group (male, 47, for starters) the only way to proceed is paying for a dexa hip/spine scan myself. Looks like a local hospital does one for about 156 quid, or if I get myself up to a Boots centre in Milton Keynes I can get one for ~95 quid. Hopefully I'll get that sorted in the next few weeks.

I wondered if there was an absorption problem - I've got IBS to some degree - but a check for celiac disease has drawn a blank.

I've been doing weights (free/multigym) for >10 years, but crap knees means running's a no-no. One thing that may not help is I always cycle at a rate that I sweat a fair bit (tho' for that matter I sweat quite easily anyway).

I'm also a mountain-biker, I don't buy that there's much difference between being a roadie or not. I've previously broken a collarbone ~ 11 years ago, and had a fibula spiral fracture about 8 years ago, in both cases mended pretty quickly.

Re dairy products - don't rely on stuff like hard cheese, as far as your body's concerned it's acidic and causes more rather than less leaching from the bones (somewhere I've got a New Scientist article that covers it in more detail - looking at higher incidences of hip fractures in the west as a result of higher animal protein/processed dairy consumption, IIRC)

Edit - I haven't found the complete article, but this looks like it might be the either be an abridged version or closely related, posted here:
http://www.spirithub...forum3/762.html

A related link:
http://www.quranclub...eally-give.html

whilst this argues that animal vs veg protein makes no odds..
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/24/suppl_6/526S#SEC8

 

[airbrake]

I wound up having a heel density measurement last year as part of a national survey thing being done (Biobank, if anyone's come across it). My OH was fine, mine showed borderline osteoporosis/osteopenia.

I was offered this twice last year, but didn't take it up - if my problem had been picked up I certainly wouldn't have been out on the ice...

I've been trying to get it investigated via my GP - been round the blood test loop a few times, at least I now know I've got an enlarged prostate ! - but since I'm not an 'at risk' group (male, 47, for starters) the only way to proceed is paying for a dexa hip/spine scan myself.

If you have bone loss, it's irrelevant whether we fit into the 'at risk' category - it should be checked out at no cost to yourself. If your problem can be nipped in the bud, it will save NHS time and money later.

I'm also a mountain-biker, I don't buy that there's much difference between being a roadie or not. I've previously broken a collarbone ~ 11 years ago, and had a fibula spiral fracture about 8 years ago, in both cases mended pretty quickly.

I agree - between 1997 and 2005 I covered 100,000 miles (split roughly 50 / 50 between on and off-road). From 2006 I shifted to around 70% road. MTB or road, it's not weight bearing exercise. About 6 months ago, I was looking at some old pictures from the early 70's of the Raleigh team in training - they were piling on the weights ! I remember thinking how strange - but I bet they didn't break many bones !

Thanks for the links, they are interesting articles. The stomach produces a very strong acid to break down food - apparently it can dissolve a razor blade pretty quickly, so our bodies must have a good system of regulating ph.
But if the bones are playing their part in this process - by being broken down to neutralise acids it does make you think. I must cut down my strong tea addiction !

 

[henshaw11]

>If you have bone loss, it's irrelevant whether we fit into the 'at risk' category - it should be checked out at no cost to yourself. If your problem can be nipped in the bud, it will save NHS time and money later.

I agree, except that other than wandering in with a printout from Biobank - which I could conceivably have knocked up myself - the Doc's got no indication otherwise that there's a problem*. I could, of course, go and pay for another heel scan myself, but that'll be 30 quid anyway - and to be fair, they're not that a reliable indicator of bone density elsewhere.

*His attitude was also 'why did you have that done' and didn't seem to know anything about Biobank - just didn't seem to get any of it - whereas a GP in my Pilates class did. Tho' she said a similar thing re referrals for dexa on the nhs - ie can't without evidence/'at risk' status. In fact, her practice actually uses a local private hospital, 'cos the cost of scans at the PCT hospital was actually higher !...so it's been paid for yet lies idle, she thinks

It may yet be the case that the rest of me's fine - since my knees are a bit dodgy I try to be light on my feet, whereas my OH stomps around

FWIW, that's *way* more mileage than I've done in that sort of period...I even had a period from 2005-2008 where I didn't cycle that much at all for various reasons..

Presumably you've had a dexa scan after your (unusual) hip break ?

 

[airbrake]

Yes, I had the scan a few weeks after the break. Now I'm just hoping to start the further tests as soon as possible. It might be that I need a CT scan also. The ultrasound heel scan is good, but doesn't reveal quite the same level of information as a spine / hip scan. It sounds like you'll be fine as you are mixing the biking with weight training.

If you have dodgy knees, it's a good idea to avoid the higher gears (or at least avoid pedalling too hard at low rpm). This puts the knee joints under very high stress, and they can take a while to recover.


Just thinking - do you have health insurance ? They might cover the Dexa scan.

 

[henshaw11]

I used to be able to push big gears about 20+ years ago..but I had an arthroscopy on one knee some years back to remove torn cartilage, I've since made them a bit worse with a bout of snowboard lessons - when hard boots were around - and unicycling - haven't done either since !

So yeah, I 'm very wary of overdoing it - on an mtb I have my seatpost relatively high, more than about 5-10mm lower and I can tell the difference.
I actually do most of my mileage at the mo' on a recumbent, that uses the muscles differently to an upright - certainly hill climbing all you can do is spin, pushing bigger gears just doesn't work well. I probably ought to get back on the mtb - when they do feel a bit dodgy, as the cartilage-lite one has been over the last few days - that often helps. I'm down for the next FNRTTC, next friday so I could do with it feeling a tad better..

Health insurance - good point, I'd better check - but a few years back our company policy brought in a 100 quid excess, dunno if it's gone up or down since..

 

[marzjennings]

From what I've experienced and read mountain biking is a weight bearing exercise. I'm not taking about a pootle in the park, but mountain biking where you take the odd drop, small jump, standing climb, rock garden and root section. I know if I compare a 3 hour roadie ride to a 3 hour mtb ride, my entire body is given a good shaking and beating from mtbing over just some leg and neck pain from a road ride.

There's even been a study that seems to have shown that 'higher BMD in the mountain cyclists suggests that mountain cycling may provide an osteogenic stimulus that is not inherent to road cycling'.

http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/bon/article/PIIS8756328201007049/abstract

 

[airbrake]

Yes, I'm sure you are right that competitive off-road riding and the more physical side of MTB will result in higher bone mineral density compared to road riding.

Thinking of the constant development in MTB suspension to soak up rough terrain and allow faster speeds cross-country, is it possible that those riders in the 2001 study with less sophisticated or maybe no suspension at all, would have a higher BMD than today's riders ?

Weight lifting and running are excellent ways to strengthen bones - cyclo-cross would probably be the best activity to keep our bones in good shape.

 

[henshaw11]

>Thinking of the constant development in MTB suspension to soak up rough terrain and allow faster speeds cross-country, is it possible that those riders in the 2001 study with less sophisticated or maybe no suspension at all, would have a higher BMD than today's riders ?

I'm not sure that should be the case - someone that comes from riding a rigid or hardtail should be used to soaking up bumps with their natural suspension - arms and legs - and letting the bike move underneath them. Suspension isn't always, but can be, a bit of a skill-compensator for not picking lines/riding smoothly (not that I'd describe myself as a particularly skilful rider ! - tho' I started ~'89 on a rigid mtb...)

 

[joconn]

I`m wondering if a lot of strenuous hill climbing (on the bike) would help maintain bone density.

 

[markg0vbr]

i broke my hip on january 29th in a minor fall, i am titanium enhanced (two bolts up through my bone, the recovery continues, 15 miles every other day for the past three weeks, with the off bike days doing laps of medow hall in a wheel chair)
i have had the pelvis/back x ray and am awaiting the results. i have never done any impact exercise after the age of about 20, back and lung problems and did not do all that much before that.

they way i look at it all the years of cycling have increased my lung capacity to near normal, my recovery rate from near exaustion is better than most a lot younger than me at 46, bone loss which is treatable is the last of my worries.

 

[henshaw11]

The one difference between mtb and road on that front is that mtb's more likely to be more interval-like, whether that makes any difference I dunno.

>two bolts up through my bone

Somehow I read that as 'two bolts through my nose' !

I was about to write 'get thee to the moustache thread(s)' but I see you have

 

[markg0vbr]

The one difference between mtb and road on that front is that mtb's more likely to be more interval-like, whether that makes any difference I dunno.

>two bolts up through my bone

Somehow I read that as 'two bolts through my nose' !

I was about to write 'get thee to the moustache thread(s)' but I see you have

as a user of tashwax for my handlebar nose enhancer i must confess a slight bias to what will be a balanced considered debate with no sweeping generalisations the long plated beard only enhances the effect.

 

[airbrake]

>Thinking of the constant development in MTB suspension to soak up rough terrain and allow faster speeds cross-country, is it possible that those riders in the 2001 study with less sophisticated or maybe no suspension at all, would have a higher BMD than today's riders ?

I'm not sure that should be the case - someone that comes from riding a rigid or hardtail should be used to soaking up bumps with their natural suspension - arms and legs - and letting the bike move underneath them. Suspension isn't always, but can be, a bit of a skill-compensator for not picking lines/riding smoothly (not that I'd describe myself as a particularly skilful rider ! - tho' I started ~'89 on a rigid mtb...)

This is interesting - in essence I am thinking that those riders with little or no suspension will be more physically active (and despite the use of the limbs to soak up the bumps, a lot of shocks still get through). By comparison, the best suspension systems can give a very plush ride.

I've only been using a MTB for about 3 years - before that I used road bikes off-road. The bike that did 100,000 miles was an old steel Raleigh, and being rigid hi-tensile steel this gave a very hard ride... I had to try and absorb the bumps the best I could, but my arms would be jarred and my vision would blur. My friends with suspended / carbon frames had a much easier time I suppose what I'm saying is that there is a limit to what the body can absorb. I stopped riding that 'boneshaker' in 2005 - maybe that's where I've gone wrong

 

[airbrake]

I`m wondering if a lot of strenuous hill climbing (on the bike) would help maintain bone density.

joconn, resistance training alone doesn't create the strongest bones. You could combine hill climbing with other routines such as weightlifting and jogging.