Cycling transition to Scooter

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largely useless CBT
I personally think the CBT should be abolished. I think it's insanely dangerous. I think it was a good idea at the time, when 16 year old kids could previously get on a motorbike with no training whatsoever. But while the car driving test has gone from a single 15 minute 'drive round the block without crashing', to a 40 minute practical and a separate theory test, followed by 2 years on probation where 6 points (being clocked twice at 32mph for example) puts you right back to square one, where you even have to reapply for your provisional, the bike requirements for learner legal missiles remains unchanged.

Personally I think little motorbikes are brilliant. They could do a lot for our congestion problems and even probably the environment, given their fuel efficiency compared to a car, but I do wish the kids that often ride them had a bit of actual ability.
 

Smudge

Veteran
Location
Somerset
Being of Northern Irish origin I see this every year around the end of March. The following two months are largely the worst on roads here as the winter sleepers appear in droves for road racing season.. Problem being, as you say they get on the bike acting Billy big balls with a fistful when mentally they simply aren't and can't be up to "speed"

After doing 10,000 miles or so per year I now feel a bit sluggish after a couple weeks no riding.. I'll likely be out tomorrow + plan to keep riding when weather and time allows ^_^

Looks like a Tracer9 in your avatar.... i had one for a couple of years. Loved that triple engine, so now i have the XSR9.
 

T.M.H.N.E.T

Rainbows aren't just for world champions
Location
Northern Ireland
I personally think the CBT should be abolished. I think it's insanely dangerous. I think it was a good idea at the time, when 16 year old kids could previously get on a motorbike with no training whatsoever. But while the car driving test has gone from a single 15 minute 'drive round the block without crashing', to a 40 minute practical and a separate theory test, followed by 2 years on probation where 6 points (being clocked twice at 32mph for example) puts you right back to square one, where you even have to reapply for your provisional, the bike requirements for learner legal missiles remains unchanged.

Personally I think little motorbikes are brilliant. They could do a lot for our congestion problems and even probably the environment, given their fuel efficiency compared to a car, but I do wish the kids that often ride them had a bit of actual ability.
They needed some way of feeding the staggered licence system though, which in a way makes sense as it forces anyone from 17-24 to gain experience on smaller capacity/HP machines.. NI was slow to actually get CBT's (Jan 2013) so I never actually had to do it, in those days Cat A test on a 125 and 2years restricted to 33HP (which nobody inc myself ever did) I was 17 at the time and riding a 50cc bike (derestricted :laugh:)

Looks like a Tracer9 in your avatar.... i had one for a couple of years. Loved that triple engine, so now i have the XSR9.
Certainly is, 2015 vintage this one. Also have a 2006 SV650S for the retro Vtwin addiction :laugh:
 

Smudge

Veteran
Location
Somerset
Certainly is, 2015 vintage this one. Also have a 2006 SV650S for the retro Vtwin addiction :laugh:

I had a 15, bought it when they came out that year..... unfortunately mine was wrote off 2 years later when a feckwit coach driver drove into me.
But i wasn't hurt, their insurance paid me out and as i fancied a naked street bike again i bought the XSR..... Still kept that stonking 900 triple tho.
 

SkipdiverJohn

Deplorable Brexiteer
Location
London
With any activity, there's statistical risk comprising historic data - and there's your individual personal real-time risk dependent on whether your approach to any given activity is more or less reckless than the average participant. Whilst you can't control what other road users do, you can control what you do, and you can mitigate to an extent the risk caused by others - by good observation, anticipation, and not putting yourself into dangerous situations in the first place. You can chose to take chances with traffic lights and junctions to save journey time or you can play it safe. You can risk filtering between lines of heavy slow-moving traffic or you can be more patient and wait. Get it wrong and you leave yourself a sitting duck surrounded by rapidly accelerating traffic, and on a push bike you don't have the acceleration to get out of such situations quickly.
 

Smudge

Veteran
Location
Somerset
With any activity, there's statistical risk comprising historic data - and there's your individual personal real-time risk dependent on whether your approach to any given activity is more or less reckless than the average participant. Whilst you can't control what other road users do, you can control what you do, and you can mitigate to an extent the risk caused by others - by good observation, anticipation, and not putting yourself into dangerous situations in the first place. You can chose to take chances with traffic lights and junctions to save journey time or you can play it safe. You can risk filtering between lines of heavy slow-moving traffic or you can be more patient and wait. Get it wrong and you leave yourself a sitting duck surrounded by rapidly accelerating traffic, and on a push bike you don't have the acceleration to get out of such situations quickly.

Totally agree...... you have to take responsibility for your own safety. You can be sure a lot of other road users wont.
 

Kempstonian

Has the memory of a goldfish
Location
Bedford
I used to ride a Lambretta GT200 a long while ago and I loved it. But in those days the traffic (and the standards of drivers) was much better. I never felt in any danger at all, probably because I could keep up with the speed of cars and it was nippy enough to avoid any potential problems., like a car driver opening his door without checking behind first.

If you are a sensible cyclist you should be ok on a scooter because you will already be aware of the possible dangers.
 

MarkF

Guru
Location
Yorkshire
Why not get an ebike? Just like a normal bike but easier on the legs I presume.

They are not fast enough and a small motorbike/scooter is actually less expensive to own and run as well as being far more useful. I've had the former and own the latter.

OP, I commute on my cycle, vintage Vespa (sunny summer days) and a Suzuki 125 Van Van that I bought to replace the e-bike. The dangers for me are just the same, it's a very hilly traffic clogged commute, it's not enjoyable cycling tbh and I only really do it now on early 6am starts.

125 scooters are great machines, viable second transport for a car owner and super cheap to run, MOT is £25, Tax £17, insurance £100 & 80-100mpg+.

If you are wanting a metal bodied cool scooter then buy a Vespa PX and you may not ever lose any money on it. LML's (Indian Vespa clones) are good value right now second hand or a "modern" plastic scooter like the Honda PCX are superb and far better that the Vespa in every respect but won't do the trick if the "Mod" look is driving your interest.

The 4t automatic LML is an interesting machine for a new rider as geared scooters can take a bit of getting used to with your left hand operating (simultaneously) both the clutch and gear change, I had one for a short while and regret selling it. Cheap scootering!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LML-Star...h=item1cc00fc1cb:g:AzQAAOSw4Vpb4CcZ:rk:2:pf:0
 
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rivers

How far can I go?
Location
Bristol
I mainly cycle to work, but sometimes I scoot (I have a 125cc Honda PCX). I have done more cycling in the past two years than I have ridden the PCX. I have been knocked off the PCX twice, in the span of 11 months. However, it has made me a more aware cyclist, and if I won't do it on the PCX, I don't try it cycling (for example, I never filter up the inside of traffic). I've been riding a scooter since 2013, just re-do my CBT every 2 years. It's nice to have the option if I don't feel like cycling or my legs need a break. But the PCX is a brilliant little bike.
 

Drago

Legendary Member
I'm not such a fan of the staggered licence system. Despite many attempts by different bodies to prove it, including the Governments TRRL, there is no link between horsepower and the likelihood if crashing a motorbike. After all, if its so brilliant rten why wasnt it applied ro new car drivers?

As a motorbicyclistist of 34 years to standing myself, I know first hand that you're far, far safer on any middleweight sports bike at 70mph, with brakes and handling to spare, the than you would be on a CG125, where you're right at the ragged edge of handling, on skinny bakelite wheels with very limited grip, and well beyond the ability of the brakes to help you if you get into trouble.

Riding across the country to get back to barracks I was far, far safer at 18 years old on my GSXR1100 than I was the week before on my 30bhp KMX200. 70 is 70, 30 is 30, 100 is 100, regardless of the engine beneath you - it's how and where you decide to do those speeds that matters, and the 33 BHP limit is zero impediment to that.

Being a tit is the problem. You can still be a tit on an estate road oitside a school at 100mph with 33bhp. The limited power in no way makes you immune to being a prat, and in no way negates any of the laws of physics when you muff it up.
 
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Randy Butternubs

Über Member
I can sympathise to some extent with the idea of a tiered licensing system for motorbikes since few new car drivers can afford to go out and buy (and insure) a sports car but many can afford a sports bike. Unfortunately, whoever comes up with such systems seems incapable of doing a halfway decent job.

It was bad enough under the previous regime where new riders were limited to 33 bhp. It sounded sensible on paper but there weren't actually any suitable bikes being sold in this country. You had to buy something pretty ancient, likely with clapped out suspension and brakes. Super safe.
Since manufacturer's claimed power outputs don't actually correlate well to real power output you also ended up trying guess the real power of a prospective bike and factor in a loss of horses over the decades of use the bike had had at the hands of feckless teenagers. Or you could do what almost everyone did, which was to ignore the restriction.
I was a good boy and bought a bike that came with restrictors and a dyno-testing chart from a garage. At a hefty premium of course. Only later did I realise that the thing was a complete fabrication, such was my naivete.
Insurers would sometimes ask for proof of restriction. Unfortunately there was no such thing, no recognised certificate or certifying body, so what you would do is write as official-looking a letter as you could to the theme of, 'This bike is restricted, honest.' and cap it with a fancy signature.

The new system is far worse. There are 3 tiers of licenses, each with multiple conditions. The restrictions no longer lift automatically after a certain amount of time and the practical test for motorbikes is in two parts, meaning that a young rider looking to progress gradually must do the CBT, then pass the theory test, then pass six practical tests over 4 years. The last four require you, in practice, to rent a bike off an instructor which is likely to tip the total cost into the thousands, especially if you fail any of them.
And if all that doesn't seem egregiously retarded enough, there is currently no reason for a 17 year old to take the test! Amazingly, those transitioning from the CBT to the first license tier are still limited to a 125cc bike. That means the most financially sensible thing for a skint teenager to do is to spend two years riding around with no training until they turn 19, or to keep retaking their CBT until they turn 24 and get the whole test over and done in one shot (3 actually).

If you've bothered to read this far you've probably come to the same conclusion I have: either those making the law are trying to kill as many teenagers as possible, or they are the sort of people who would be unable to locate their bottoms with both hands. If they actually wanted to save lives they would, as @User76022 said, abolish the CBT and make people get proper training by proper instructors.
 

Smudge

Veteran
Location
Somerset
In the 45yrs i've been riding motorcycles, i've seen how getting a motorcycle licence has been made harder & harder. It all started in the early 80's when they cut the cc for learners down to 125 and made it a 2 part test. Since then its become an ever more complicated expensive process.
If i had my time again, i doubt i could be bothered with it.... In fact i think its one of the reasons a lot of young people aren't interested in motorcycles these days.
 

keithmac

Guru
If you want a grown up "mod" scooter you can't go far wrong with a Vespa GTS.

Full metal body, ABS, Traction Control, Stop Start, and really well finished.

Really nice to ride and the 125cc is pokey enough, 300 is the best all rounder.

We sell loads, the Piaggio Medley 125 is a very nice commuter as well.

Honda PCX is also a good alrounder.

vehicles-2018-vespa-gts300-super-abs-asr-montebian.jpg
 

T.M.H.N.E.T

Rainbows aren't just for world champions
Location
Northern Ireland
In the 45yrs i've been riding motorcycles, i've seen how getting a motorcycle licence has been made harder & harder. It all started in the early 80's when they cut the cc for learners down to 125 and made it a 2 part test. Since then its become an ever more complicated expensive process.
If i had my time again, i doubt i could be bothered with it.... In fact i think its one of the reasons a lot of young people aren't interested in motorcycles these days.
It's the exact reason young'uns aren't getting into bikes. Annual test passes went from thousands to about 500, and it's set to change again of course, after this - https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2018/november/2019-category-a-motorcycle-test-rules/

And this: https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2017/december/dvsa-bike-training-proposals/

Getting into bikes any younger than 24 is massively costly as the bike you buy at 17, is not the same one you need to be riding to do your 2 years on when you turn 19 + tests and modules etc etc etc
 
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