Cyclist death last August comes to court

[CopperBrompton]

Maybe, but then everyone has 'an unthinking moment' from time to time

They will have far fewer of them if they understand that the cost could be five years in gaol.

 

[CopperBrompton]

While I totally agree with you we're not going to see any move in that direction while the general attitude is that driving is a basic right

Indeed, and while driving licences are so easy to obtain and retain.

I've posted my solution before (which I fully accept will never happen) ...

Driving licences:
- Pass the current L-test to get an interim licence valid for 1-2 years
- Pass an IAM-standard test to convert to a full licence
- IAM-standard retests every five years to keep the licence

 

[Rhythm Thief]

13 hours is by no means an unusually long working day for a professional driver. In fact, it's pretty much the norm.

 

[Origamist]

My own view is that consequence is everything. Yes, it may be sheer luck that driver A gets gaoled for 10 years and driver B gets three points and a £60 fine, but if drivers knew that they would be held responsible for the consequences of careless driving, we'd see a lot less of it.

Maybe, but then everyone has 'an unthinking moment' from time to time and then its the concientious charity worker with a 30 year clean licence that's behind bars...

Whilst I certainly do want motorists to take more responsibility when they get behind the wheel of a car and receive harsher punishments for road violence from the Courts, what is of greater importance is the need to get more people to consider not driving in the first place - is walking, cycling, public transport etc an option? Getting people to examine their modal choice on the back of the danger they pose to others is always going to be difficult, but people should consider the consequences of operating dangerous machinery in a public space before every journey.

 

[adscrim]

Maybe, but then everyone has 'an unthinking moment' from time to time and then its the concientious charity worker with a 30 year clean licence that's behind bars...

Then he should have been more careful when getting behind the wheel of a car. When you start the engine you are taking responsility for the control of a potentially lethal object. I believe the law should force the driver to remember that.

Also, greater punishment for 'unthinking moments' that resullt in harm being caused to others may make people think twice about making the journey by car. Is it wrong to scare people onto public transport, bike or, God forbid, walking to the paper shop?

 

[adds21]

Whilst I certainly do want motorists to take more responsibility when they get behind the wheel of a car and receive harsher punishments for road violence from the Courts, what is of greater importance is the need to get more people to consider not driving in the first place - is walking, cycling, public transport etc an option? Getting people to examine their modal choice on the back of the danger they pose to others is always going to be difficult, but people should consider the consequences of operating dangerous machinery in a public space before every journey.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. I’m generally loathed to join in discussions about accidents, mostly because, if I’m honest, I can’t help thinking “there but for the grace of God” for myself… Either as the cyclist, or the driver. I don’t think I’m an unsafe driver, I’ve been driving over 20 years (sometimes professionally) and never had a fault accident, but people never go out with the intension of having an accident or killing a cyclist, so who knows.

The point is, the problem could be massively reduced if people didn’t use their cars so much. I live in cluster of houses in a small village. Because of the road layout, the village school is either a mile drive, or about a third of a mile walk though fields– Yet people drive! – Why? A third of a mile! Less than 2,000 feet. It beggars belief. Most of the time, I think people drive because they’ve literally forgotten how to walk (or rather, forgotten that walking is an option).

Im constantly “having a go” at a friend at work who drives the half a mile to work every day (and yet spends money every month going to the gym! – That’s the bit that amazes me).

 

[summerdays]

It is as others say, how often they choose to make journeys that could easily be made by foot/bike/bus but also the attitude once they are in the car ... the lack of consideration for others (obviously not everyone). I like the idea of the shared space concepts and yet I'm not sure motorists are ready for them.

 

[CopperBrompton]

Im constantly “having a go” at a friend at work who drives the half a mile to work every day (and yet spends money every month going to the gym! – That’s the bit that amazes me).

And the people who drive to the nearby gym they pay money to. :-)

 

[downfader]

Im constantly “having a go” at a friend at work who drives the half a mile to work every day (and yet spends money every month going to the gym! – That’s the bit that amazes me).

I have the exact same conversation. Many who live around the corner from work, not even half a mile, drive to work. I often said "why dont you walk or cycle?" as invariably they will come out with some moan about the traffic and parking problems.. excuses include:

- "we're not all super fit like you, people werent designed to walk such a distance"
- "I'll get mugged/raped/insert other violent crime in here"
- "I cant afford a bike" (FFS you afford petrol you plum!)
- "the roads/drivers arent safe"
- "too many potholes"
- "its too cold/it will rain" (I have visions of the Wicked Witch of the West melting on a Trax T700 when it rains)

Its all just excuses. In fact I'll add - my workmate has a knackered knee, he still walks and cycles and is waiting for a replacement knee. One of the blokes I encountered the other week cycles 20 miles in and 20 out from near Portsmouth.

 

[Crankarm]

I have the exact same conversation. Many who live around the corner from work, not even half a mile, drive to work. I often said "why dont you walk or cycle?" as invariably they will come out with some moan about the traffic and parking problems.. excuses include:

- "we're not all super fit like you, people werent designed to walk such a distance"
- "I'll get mugged/raped/insert other violent crime in here"
- "I cant afford a bike" (FFS you afford petrol you plum!)
- "the roads/drivers arent safe"
- "too many potholes"
- "its too cold/it will rain" (I have visions of the Wicked Witch of the West melting on a Trax T700 when it rains)

Its all just excuses. In fact I'll add - my workmate has a knackered knee, he still walks and cycles and is waiting for a replacement knee. One of the blokes I encountered the other week cycles 20 miles in and 20 out from near Portsmouth.

Indeed, you're not even fit, but fat lazy slobs if you can't walk a mile to work.

 

[downfader]

Indeed, you're not even fit, but fat lazy slobs if you can't walk a mile to work.

I dont class myself as fit even. I do think that of it wasnt for the cycling I'd prolly be 18 stone by now.

 

[campbellab]

Then he should have been more careful when getting behind the wheel of a car. When you start the engine you are taking responsility for the control of a potentially lethal object. I believe the law should force the driver to remember that.

Also, greater punishment for 'unthinking moments' that resullt in harm being caused to others may make people think twice about making the journey by car. Is it wrong to scare people onto public transport, bike or, God forbid, walking to the paper shop?

Anything can be a lethal object, and any action could ultimately lead to you being responsible for another's death, even cycling. I take it you would be quite happy to serve jailtime for a simple mistake on your part combined with bad luck and circumstance? I know I wouldn't, I'd already be feeling horribly guilty, do I want the rest of my life ruined as well? Unfortunatly you can't rewind time no matter how harsh the punishments.

I'm not saying that the punishments shouldn't be greater, the guy had previous mobile and speeding conviction he obviously doesn't observe the rules of the road...

Isit wrong to scare people onto public transport? Hmmm I'll let you think about what you're saying again!

 

[campbellab]

The point is, the problem could be massively reduced if people didn’t use their cars so much. I live in cluster of houses in a small village. Because of the road layout, the village school is either a mile drive, or about a third of a mile walk though fields– Yet people drive! – Why? A third of a mile! Less than 2,000 feet. It beggars belief. Most of the time, I think people drive because they’ve literally forgotten how to walk (or rather, forgotten that walking is an option).

Tis a daft old world

 

[davefb]

13 hours is by no means an unusually long working day for a professional driver. In fact, it's pretty much the norm.

i find that hard to believe, surely its above the limit by a long way?

http://www.yourdrivinglicence.co.uk/working-time-legislation-for-professional-drivers.html

max per day 10hrs driving.. i mean, i suppose people might do longer, but there are laws against it for a reason.

 

[sheddy]

Please don't use the 'accident' word. This was a collision.
An accident occurs when one reverses into a tree.