Cyclist who don't wear a helmet

[Fab Foodie]

There are no facts, only interpretations.

Is that a fact?

 

[Mugshot]

I just think a sticky with the basic arguments on that could be pointed back to _might_ allow for new points to be discussed when they arise. To be fair it'll probably just lead to arguing over the individual words used in the sticky but if it worked at all it would be better than the carousel that exists currently.

Actually I'd like to see less shutting down of the threads on this part of the forum, I don't see that it necessarily matters when it is quite specific what this part of the forum is all about if they're allowed to run. Also I'm not sure that you can necessarily get a point across without several posts from each party which does quite frequently revolve around one particular sticking point, but if it takes several pages then so be it, it's a big subject and there's some people that are rather passionate about it, let the threads run.

 

[DaveReading]

By coincidence, I ordered a copy of this earlier today from Amazon:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10462030-believing-bullshit

Mainly because I'm fed up arguing with conspiracy theorists, but I suspect that once I start reading it, I'll find quite a bit of relevance to the pro-helmet lobby.

 

[young Ed]

Bone: stone age man used to make knives from it
Tarmac: on a warm day you can see your footprints in it

I concede that maybe my planet uses a different definition of hardness from yours, but I always thought it was about "how much it squishes when you poke it"

the definition of hardness

hardness
ˈhɑːdnəs/
noun
the quality or condition of being hard.
"people complained about the hardness of the chairs"
synonyms:firmness, solidity, stiffness, rigidity, denseness, inflexibility, inelasticity,resistance More

and the definition of hard

hard
hɑːd/
adjective

1. 1.
   solid, firm, and rigid; not easily broken, bent, or pierced.
   "the slate broke on the hard floor"
   synonyms:firm, solid, dense, rigid, stiff, resistant, unbreakable, inflexible,unpliable, impenetrable, unyielding, solidified, hardened, compact,compacted, steely, tough, strong, stony, rock-like, flinty, close-packed, compressed, as hard as iron, as hard as stone; More
   
   • 
     
     
2. 2.
   done with a great deal of force or strength.
   "a hard whack"
   synonyms:forceful, heavy, strong, sharp, smart, violent, powerful, vigorous,mighty, hefty, tremendous More
   

adverb

1. 1.
   with a great deal of effort.
   "they work hard at school"
   synonyms:diligently, industriously, assiduously, conscientiously, sedulously,busily, intensely, enthusiastically, energetically, earnestly,persistently, doggedly, steadily, indefatigably, untiringly, all out, with application, with perseverance; More
   
   2.
2. so as to be solid or firm.
   "the mortar has set hard"

noun
BRITISH

1. 1.
   a road leading down across a foreshore.

bone is harder than tarmac
but the question is how good is it at absorbing impact? you see tarmac and especially warm tarmac is very good at this where as bone isn't and just breaks or cracks

sorry i shall leave now before i get in trouble
Cheers Ed

 

[mcshroom]

The statement was about 'hardness', though, rather than Malleability.

Just reminded me of one of my old Uni lecturers who kept braking sticks of chalk to point out it was a brittle material - no we didn't understand why he kept doing it either.

 

[StuartG]

@w00hoo_kent makes a classic mistake in identifying this debate to be between helmeteers and anti-helmeteers. People who search for and filter (or even create) information to fit their world view. Yes these people exist but are irrelevant to the objective question of whether helmets are a help or a hindrance to the individual cyclist and/or the well being of the nation.

Can @w00hoo_kent not for a moment consider there are people, nay a whole profession or three, who are trying to do just that. People who have sieved all the available information, tried to balance one indicator against the other and have come to a consensus that they are unlikely to be a significant benefit. This includes rubbishing some well known studies purporting to show benefit. It also dismisses many of the claims made the other way. Not by opinion but by accepted statistical or other methods.

The stance of the UK's Chief Statistician is ... well why don't you try and find out

But even cycling statisticians have to make choices based on incomplete evidence. To wear or not to wear. There is not unanimity. I choose not to wear one because when balancing the possible but limited benefit when head hits ground in a very limited set of cycling incidents against the likely increased risks of an incident because of risk compensation by the rider and the decrease in vulnerability seen by other road users - it is hard to see scenarios when the former would be greater than the latter.

There is also the important public health matter that cycling is good for the nation and helmets don't encourage it.

Of course if a scenario was proven that helmets would be better than compulsion has to be considered. If you go with that would you also be happy that if we could show confidently that helmets were not - then their wearing should be banned?

 

[Dan B]

Certainly there's a case that they should be banned on climbing frames

 

[ufkacbln]

Personally I prefer a Tilley.......


After all:

One reason your Hat floats is because of
the air trapped inside the water-repellent
fibres. The main reason, however, is the
layer of closed-cell polyethylene foam in
the crown of the Hat that also protects
your noggin from blunt objects. (People
have told us this feature has actually
saved their lives!)

 

[w00hoo_kent]

@w00hoo_kent makes a classic mistake in identifying this debate to be between helmeteers and anti-helmeteers. People who search for and filter (or even create) information to fit their world view. Yes these people exist but are irrelevant to the objective question of whether helmets are a help or a hindrance to the individual cyclist and/or the well being of the nation.

To be fair. I am new to this and have been looking at a very specific area :-) and I am busy arguing about the shape of the debate on this forum, not the debate itself, I guess that can be easy to miss.

Can @w00hoo_kent not for a moment consider there are people, nay a whole profession or three, who are trying to do just that. People who have sieved all the available information, tried to balance one indicator against the other and have come to a consensus that they are unlikely to be a significant benefit. This includes rubbishing some well known studies purporting to show benefit. It also dismisses many of the claims made the other way. Not by opinion but by accepted statistical or other methods.

The stance of the UK's Chief Statistician is ... well why don't you try and find out

Oddly, he can and is also willing to give it a go. Unfortunately Google doesn't seem to think that Jil Matheson has expressed any views on the subject. Maybe @StuartG can help @w00hoo_kent to find the required article? What @w00hoo_kent has discovered in his attempts to find answers is that no one really has a proper answer and that he is comfortable with his mixed helmet use

 

[Scoosh]

Has anyone seen the OP anywhere ?

Has he run away and, watching from a distance, is laughing at the 6 pages of same-old-same-old he has created ?

 

[mcshroom]

Started with the same old stuff, but the discussion with w00hoo_kent is a different tack to many

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Has anyone seen the OP anywhere ?

Has he run away and, watching from a distance, is laughing at the 6 pages of same-old-same-old he has created ?

Yes, I saw him under a canal bridge rocking back and forwards wailing ''What have I started?''

 

[Alun]

Personally I prefer a Tilley.......


After all:

Did you know that a Tilley hat can survive being passed through an elephant's digestive system? Try that with a cycle helmet !

 

[Fab Foodie]

Did you know that a Tilley hat can survive being passed through an elephant's digestive system? Try that with a cycle helmet !

Don't need to, cycle helmets are already sh1t ....

 

[Alun]

Cycle helmets provide storage for sunglasses whilst cycling, and can preserve some modesty in the Spar shop whilst wearing lycra. Try that with a Tilley hat covered in elephant poo!