Cyclists that ignore road etiquette and the highway code

[Glow worm]

I don't say anything unless a RLJer has put me at risk, such as happened to me a few weeks ago in Cambridge. Generally though I let them get on with it, and figure they'll come unstuck in the end. I'm not there to police the roads.

 

[gregsid]

Does Stalin give all Athiests a bad name? Does John Worboys give all taxi drivers a bad name? Does Peter Sutcliffe give all Yorkshiremen and women a bad name?

But sadly there's far too many bad cyclist examples. Not just the one.

Greg

 

[downfader]

But sadly there's far too many bad cyclist examples. Not just the one.

Greg

I'm not sure you've gotten my point. The point is people notice something more readily because it is wrong, dangerous etc. When the full counts are done the picture doesnt show a majority doing it. It tends to show a minority of offenders.

With cycling the media and the public tend to follow the philosophy that we're all the same. They do not apply the same rule of though to other forms of miscreant behaviour and the groups in which they belong (so Stalin was said to have spoken of his atheism yet we would not assume atheists endorse genocide, Worboys was a taxi driver and we would not say taxi drivers endorse a similar abhorrent mindset of sexual deviancy, etc)

This is the point I'm trying to make. We need to stop apologising for the morons. They don't represent us, we don't encourage or approve of their behaviour.

 

[Dan B]

With cycling the media and the public tend to follow the philosophy that we're all the same. They do not apply the same rule of though to other forms of miscreant behaviour and the groups in which they belong (so Stalin was said to have spoken of his atheism yet we would not assume atheists endorse genocide, Worboys was a taxi driver and we would not say taxi drivers endorse a similar abhorrent mindset of sexual deviancy, etc)

^ This. Anyone who can't see beyond the stereotype to the truth that there are good and bad road users in all classes of vehicle (and of non-vehicle) is not someone with sufficient mental capacity that I care what they think. If "think" is even the right word

 

[Tynan]

I'm quite sure that most non cyclists in London think all bikes jumo lights and ride on the pavement

People I know fairly well invariaboly ask me if I bust reds or ride on the pavement, almost in a reflex way

 

[HLaB]

I tend to ignore them and hopefully blast passed showing their rlj etc was futile. However, I'm a friendly chap (honest) and when I see a cyclist coming towards me on the other side of the road I nod/say hello and it annoys me afterwards when I realise they are on the pavement.

 

[al78]

With cycling the media and the public tend to follow the philosophy that we're all the same. They do not apply the same rule of though to other forms of miscreant behaviour and the groups in which they belong (so Stalin was said to have spoken of his atheism yet we would not assume atheists endorse genocide, Worboys was a taxi driver and we would not say taxi drivers endorse a similar abhorrent mindset of sexual deviancy, etc)

It takes more than one example for a stereotype to develop.

In fact, people do apply the same rule of thought to other "groups" of people on the roads e.g.:

white van man
OAP's
BMW/AUDI drivers (seen this one used many times by people on here)
caravan drivers
4x4 drivers
boy racers
rep-mobiles

etc

 

[400bhp]

With cycling the media and the public tend to follow the philosophy that we're all the same. They do not apply the same rule of though to other forms of miscreant behaviour and the groups in which they belong

Yes they do, all the time. That's what a lot of the media hang their hat on.

 

[Red Light]

With cycling the media and the public tend to follow the philosophy that we're all the same. They do not apply the same rule of though to other forms of miscreant behaviour and the groups in which they belong (so Stalin was said to have spoken of his atheism yet we would not assume atheists endorse genocide,

TRL Report 549 on Drivers' Perceptions of Cyclists is worth reading. One of the notable paragraphs is:

"A key finding which should be noted was that, when
commenting on the scenarios it was usually the behaviour
of the cyclist that was criticised – no matter how small the
misdemeanour. Few links were made between the cyclist’s
behaviour and any external influences that could be
affecting their choice of behaviour; i.e. the respondents’
comments indicated that they thought the cyclist’s actions
were inherent and dispositional behaviours. In contrast, the
motorists’ misdemeanours were excused or justified in
terms of the situational influences. As this tendency
seemed to continue across the groups and the individual
depth interviews and was unprompted, it is unlikely that
group dynamics had any significant effect on this finding.
.........Perhaps more interesting is the way in which
drivers tended to criticise the behaviour of cyclists before
that of the drivers depicted within each scene. This aligns
with the psychological prediction of targeting of members
of an ‘out group’."

 

[StuartG]

Don't say anything. Just roll your eyes ... and move on.

Unless you are the fuzz. Then they may listen and even learn.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

The way I see it is that many cyclists now beat themselves up over it despite being legal and respectful, many cyclists now become apologists for the bad behaviour of a few. We have, at the very least, an obligation to ourselves to present an image that we're not the ones causing the problems. Drivers dont have this problem, people dont publically denegrate them as a whole and quite rightly.

You're right, we cant control the stereotypes, but we can present our opinions and show that we set an example.

I agree 100%. Well, 99% actually: I have known a small number people who are not motorists and clearly think that motorists are a single group who all behave as badly as the worst. My late mother-in-law held this view, in fact.

I agree, we should press this distinction whenever possible, but it would still be easier to push for better treatment of cyclists by motorists if there weren't so many people on bicycles jumping red lights and riding maniacally down the pavements, etc. If nothing else, it causes any discussion with motorists, about the treatment of cyclists by motorists, to be diverted onto this irrelevant track, and it is usually impossible to get the discussion back to the issue.

 

[MrHappyCyclist]

^ This. Anyone who can't see beyond the stereotype to the truth that there are good and bad road users in all classes of vehicle (and of non-vehicle) is not someone with sufficient mental capacity that I care what they think. If "think" is even the right word

The problem is, though, that even the people you mention (such as Daily Mail readers) are allowed to vote in elections and therefore are able, in sufficient numbers, to drive Government priorities.

(Just look at the AV referendum, for example.)

 

[downfader]

TRL Report 549 on Drivers' Perceptions of Cyclists is worth reading. One of the notable paragraphs is:

"A key finding which should be noted was that, when
commenting on the scenarios it was usually the behaviour
of the cyclist that was criticised – no matter how small the
misdemeanour. Few links were made between the cyclist’s
behaviour and any external influences that could be
affecting their choice of behaviour; i.e. the respondents’
comments indicated that they thought the cyclist’s actions
were inherent and dispositional behaviours. In contrast, the
motorists’ misdemeanours were excused or justified in
terms of the situational influences. As this tendency
seemed to continue across the groups and the individual
depth interviews and was unprompted, it is unlikely that
group dynamics had any significant effect on this finding.
.........Perhaps more interesting is the way in which
drivers tended to criticise the behaviour of cyclists before
that of the drivers depicted within each scene. This aligns
with the psychological prediction of targeting of members
of an ‘out group’."

I found THIS earlier in the week whilst scanning for another peice of info. The perspective in the post there seems to reflect 549 quite well. Whilst it doesnt show all the story it seems there was a desire to blame the cyclist rather than look at one's own driving behaviour. He did however do the right thing by reporting it. I wonder how many would do so?

EDIT: importantly... how do we convince (as society, not individuals) idiots to behave and become knights of the road? I personally feel the only way is more Police involvement.

 

[gregsid]

I'm not sure you've gotten my point. The point is people notice something more readily because it is wrong, dangerous etc. When the full counts are done the picture doesnt show a majority doing it. It tends to show a minority of offenders.

-snip
This is the point I'm trying to make. We need to stop apologising for the morons. They don't represent us, we don't encourage or approve of their behaviour.

I agree. I perhaps didn't appreciate the hyperbole of your first post.

Your last two sentences ("We need to stop apologising for the morons. They don't represent us, we don't encourage or approve of their behaviour.") is absolutely spot on. Beautifully put.

Greg

 

[Jezston]

With cycling the media and the public tend to follow the philosophy that we're all the same. They do not apply the same rule of though to other forms of miscreant behaviour and the groups in which they belong (so Stalin was said to have spoken of his atheism yet we would not assume atheists endorse genocide, Worboys was a taxi driver and we would not say taxi drivers endorse a similar abhorrent mindset of sexual deviancy, etc)

I dunno:

- Muslims
- 'hoodies'
- Protesters

Just off the top of my head - tend to get portrayed as the same as the worst.