Cyclists using mobiles - WTF?

[Cab]

Sorry I didnt realise thats its ok to kill someone as long as it doesnt happen very often!

If thats what you understand HJ to be saying, then you just don't understand what that post was about.

Killing someone is not okay. The evidence suggests that cyclists using mobile phones is not a significant risk factor for this; the numbers killed by cyclists are so vanishingly small, and the proportion of those killed by cyclists with mobile phones is itself not a big part of that (has it ever happened?), that it is simply folly to bring the risk of fatalities into this.

If you ride along staring at a mobile phone you're probably risking your own welfare; the evidence we have is that the increased risk to anyone else is so trivially small as to be unmeasurable.

 

[hydridmatt]

Cab, you are missing the point. What I said was that here on this forum, we demand that drivers give us the respect we are due. But what some are saying, is that what is wrong for car users is fine for us.


And while I hate to hear drivers say they can text and concentrate, or they only only speed where it is safe to do so (!), I cringe when I come on this board and see users saying that they love to activate the speed warning signs, and that they can cycle no hands and can safely text while riding. If we don’t respect the rules of the road, how can we demand others do? And as HJ said, cyclists are far more at risk from others than to others – surely we have most to gain by making all road users respect each other?

 

[BentMikey]

Whilst I wouldn't want to text on a phone on the bike, I can see the point that it's not particularly dangerous to others. What's dangerous in a car isn't necessarily as dangerous on a bike is a fair point.

I use a headset when on the bike, but I still pull over to take calls.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Whilst I wouldn't want to text on a phone on the bike, I can see the point that it's not particularly dangerous to others.

True enough, although the two people per year killed by bicycles (as cited earlier in the thread) are just as dead as they would be if they'd been hit by a car.

 

[BentMikey]

I think that's a fail of CTC, I had thought it was less than 1 person per year on average, and no phones involved.

 

[MacB]

I suppose practice must come into it as well, I use a mobile so rarely that I'd have no chance of 'multitasking' like this. However I do accept that the risk of serious harm to others, via this practice, is vanishingly small. The harm caused to the perception of cyclists, by motorists, is probably much greater. Though I accept that it may well fall under the 'just looking for an excuse' bracket.

I'm just old fashioned, if I'm riding then that's it, if I need to make/receive a call/text, then I'll stop to do so.

 

[hackbike 666]

A modern mobile phone would be able to play tom and jerry while you're in bed

For the majority of my generation mobile phones are very important. Some people would probably go without meals to be able to pay for their phone. Sad innit

Blimey how did we manage all those years ago?

 

[Cab]

Cab, you are missing the point. What I said was that here on this forum, we demand that drivers give us the respect we are due. But what some are saying, is that what is wrong for car users is fine for us.

Nope. What people are saying is that a cyclist doing (x) may be of trivial concern when compared with a motorist doing (x). Doesn't imply that its okay, just means that its daft to get heated up over it.

 

[Mr Pig]

What people are saying is that a cyclist doing (x) may be of trivial concern when compared with a motorist doing (x). Doesn't imply that its okay, just means that its daft to get heated up over it.

I agree totally with Hydridmatt. If you're in control of a moving vehicle that has the capability to cause harm to yourself and others there is a tacit understanding that you should be concentrating fully on the task in hand. It is certainly true that you should avoid undertaking unnecessary additional tasks that compromise your control of the vehicle.

I don't think there is any difference between the mindset and motives of car drivers and bike riders who choose to use mobile phones. Both convince themselves that they can do so safely and feel hard done by that others disagree. Both are selfish and inconsiderate and both are likely to find themselves in court if they hurt someone through their arrogance.

 

[Cab]

I agree totally with Hydridmatt. If you're in control of a moving vehicle that has the capability to cause harm to yourself and others there is a tacit understanding that you should be concentrating fully on the task in hand. It is certainly true that you should avoid undertaking unnecessary additional tasks that compromise your control of the vehicle.

I largely agree with that...

I don't think there is any difference between the mindset and motives of car drivers and bike riders who choose to use mobile phones. Both convince themselves that they can do so safely and feel hard done by that others disagree. Both are selfish and inconsiderate and both are likely to find themselves in court if they hurt someone through their arrogance.

And here I think you're over-reacting to cyclists with mobile phones. The risk they pose to others is trivial relative to that posed by motorists; why, in your eyes, are two practices, one involving big risk and one involving relatively little risk, the same? While both may find someone in court if they hurt anyone doing it, riding a bike while using a mobile phone is not even close to being as likely to cause harm.

 

[Mr Pig]

why, in your eyes, are two practices, one involving big risk and one involving relatively little risk, the same?

It's got nothing to do with the relative risk. Driving a car without legal tread on the tyres may present a greater or lesser risk than driving with faulty brakes, both are an offence because both elevate risk. Using a mobile phone whilst riding a bike increases the likelihood of an ancient, which is exactly the same as using one while driving.

riding a bike while using a mobile phone is not even close to being as likely to cause harm.

Can you substantiate that? I'm not saying you're wrong but you are making an assumption to suit your own prejudice. Despite the ban, I see driver using phones every day. Most of them do not crash and would be of the opinion that they pose little risk.

Also consider that you are actually more likely to loose control of a bike should an emergency arise whilst you are using a phone than you are a car. You could perform a full emergency stop in a car while holding the wheel with one hand no problem at all. Could you do that on a bike? If you didn't hit the person or dog you failed to pick up on because you were reading a text you'd probably fall off hurting yourself, and if you did it on the road, possibly forcing other road users to take emergency action too.

The point is that cyclists who use phones think that they've got it all covered and they'll be able to deal with any situation that arises without their responses being compromised by the phone, and this is no different from car drivers who flout the ban. Both driver and rider increase risk but are too self-centred to see it, or admit it.

 

[thomas]

Cab, you are missing the point. What I said was that here on this forum, we demand that drivers give us the respect we are due. But what some are saying, is that what is wrong for car users is fine for us.

I would never, ever, pick my phone up to have a conversation whist driving. I've tried it once and found it very distracting. I couldn't care what the legalilty is. I wouldn't do it when driving. Texting when driving just seems like a joke

However, if i'm on the push bike on a quite road it isn't dangerous for me to have a look at a text message.

Generally I wouldn't answer a phone call/text on the bike...because I've better things to do (like cycle). I never normally am expecting an important phone call/text so people just wait.

 

[Cab]

It's got nothing to do with the relative risk. Driving a car without legal tread on the tyres may present a greater or lesser risk than driving with faulty brakes, both are an offence because both elevate risk. Using a mobile phone whilst riding a bike increases the likelihood of an ancient, which is exactly the same as using one while driving.

Of course it has got everything to do with relative risk. A cyclist on a bike hitting a pedestrian is not likely to kill either the pedestrian or the cyclist; a motorist hitting anything at all is very likely to cause serious harm. The likelyhood of an accident may or may not be increased, the harm caused by a cyclist is likely to be pretty trivial.

Can you substantiate that?

Substantiate that a cyclist using a phone is less likely to cause harm than a motorist? Its a kinetic energy thing, really, its that simple. I don't condone either, clearly the level of condemnation is appropriate to the risk to others. Motorists on phones kill, the risk is equivalent to drink driving. Cyclists on mobile phones may well have accidents, the risk posed to others is tiny.

There are many areas where doing (x) in one context is far worse than in another. Road use is simply one of them.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Of course it has got everything to do with relative risk. A cyclist on a bike hitting a pedestrian is not likely to kill either the pedestrian or the cyclist; a motorist hitting anything at all is very likely to cause serious harm. The likelyhood of an accident may or may not be increased, the harm caused by a cyclist is likely to be pretty trivial.

While I'd agree that a cyclist on the phone poses less risk than a car driver on the phone, the cyclist is still increasing the risk to others. If a cyclist runs into a pedestrian while on the phone and they are killed or injured (and it does happen), they're just as dead as if they'd been hit by a car. Trivial in terms of numbers, maybe, but not if you happen to be that one person.
EDIT: And I understand that you're not condoning phone use on bikes.

 

[Cab]

While I'd agree that a cyclist on the phone poses less risk than a car driver on the phone, the cyclist is still increasing the risk to others. If a cyclist runs into a pedestrian while on the phone and they are killed or injured (and it does happen), they're just as dead as if they'd been hit by a car. Trivial in terms of numbers, maybe, but not if you happen to be that one person.
EDIT: And I understand that you're not condoning phone use on bikes.

And as the likelyhood of it happening is so low as to be practically zero, its not something to get het up over.