Cyclists win undisclosed damages.

[Drago]

Symptomatic of a widespread problem where highway engineers, prompted by well meaning but unqualified councillors, design road layouts and systems without actually seeking the input of a single cyclist.

 

[flake99please]

The were numerous public meetings and causes for concern were raised by local cycling organisations at the time.

Unfortunately I feel the numerous delays and massive overspending of this ‘half-completed’ project resulted in these concerns being ignored.

 

[winjim]

There were a few areas where the crossover points for cyclists were at angles which were unsafe imho. The route around the Haymarket area was particularly ill thought out and was revised/improved after the accident there.

I still think the crossover point on Princes Street, where the trams take a left turn to go into St. Andrews square is dangerous. Riders cannot ‘take the lane’ if wishing to go straight ahead without the risk of finding yourself in the tracks.

Here's an example from Sheffield, it's an approach to the roundabout at Shalesmoor. There's no way I'm staying in that cycle lane. I'm in primary position, zig-zagging to try and cross those tracks at a sensible angle.

I remember an announcement on a tram one day where the driver apologised for the delay, blaming a 'selfish cyclist' who was riding in front of the tram. They were of course just taking the lane to avoid hitting the tracks, and in terms of selfishness, the tram infrastructure is there impeding cyclists 24/7, whether the trams are running or not.

 

[snorri]

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not unsympathetic, just curious that we don't seem to have the problem despite having a far more comprehensive tram network than most UK cities.

Hi Andy, The tram track layout came in for criticism from Edinburgh cycle campaigners after the plans were revealed but few if any safety improvements were made and the tracks were laid.
Most cyclists are aware that tram tracks should be crossed at right angles, but cyclists swerving in among moving motor traffic in order to cross tracks safely presents another danger. Also, concentrating on moving motor traffic at close quarters and remembering to be aware of tram tracks appearing on your intended path is just too much to expect all cyclists to be able to deal with safely all of the time.

 

[Drago]

I hope you reported the drive to his employers for that remark Mr Jim.

 

[winjim]

I hope you reported the drive to his employers for that remark Mr Jim.

I think I quietly seethed about it for the rest of the journey and then forgot about it as soon as I got to work. I wonder if the driver thought that the cyclist should have been using the weird bit of cycle path which runs from Tesco and then comes to an end, dumping you back on the team tracks but just a little farther down the road.

Langsett Rd / Infirmary Rd if anyone cares.

 

[NorthernDave]

I frequently hear that tram lines are dangerous for cyclists and I see the theory, but Stuttgart has a dual gauge tram system, so sometimes there's metre gauge and standard gauge lines, i.e. three grooves in the road instead of two, and I've never had the slightest problem. I even have to regularly cross the terminus of a metre gauge line where there's metre gauge track and standard gauge track inset into the surface and going in all directions,

I'm wondering if the track is different here: I certainly haven't ever seen rubber inserts or cyclists falling over because of the tramlines.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not unsympathetic, just curious that we don't seem to have the problem despite having a far more comprehensive tram network than most UK cities.

Possibly in Germany they employ tramway or highway engineers who know what they're doing and are allowed to spend money on actually making the system operate safely and efficiently.

Over here it seems the preferred method is to chuck at least half the budget at consultants, marketing and focus groups, who then produce pointless things like mission statements and dilute the original plan with lots of well intended but poorly thought out ideas that suck up even more of the budget before any work is actually carried out.

For example, here in the capital of the North, our leaders managed to spend £40 million on not building anything: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_Supertram
This then increased to £70 million as a consequence of not building anything else: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...eds-trolleybus-scheme-is-thrown-out-1-7907098

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I've been taken out by rail tracks at stupid angle to the road when riding at night. The rails also weren't level so my rear wheel bounced up and that was that in the rain. Luckily on a recumbent so only my elbow that got damaged but it took a while to stop bleeding then heal.

I hate the things, like others said cross at 90 degrees or live in hope. I will often get off and walk if in any doubt.

 

[Slick]

Possibly in Germany they employ tramway or highway engineers who know what they're doing and are allowed to spend money on actually making the system operate safely and efficiently.

Over here it seems the preferred method is to chuck at least half the budget at consultants, marketing and focus groups, who then produce pointless things like mission statements and dilute the original plan with lots of well intended but poorly thought out ideas that suck up even more of the budget before any work is actually carried out.

For example, here in the capital of the North, our leaders managed to spend £40 million on not building anything: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_Supertram
This then increased to £70 million as a consequence of not building anything else: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...eds-trolleybus-scheme-is-thrown-out-1-7907098

Wow, that's taking incompetence to a whole new level.

 

[NorthernDave]

Wow, that's taking incompetence to a whole new level.

It certainly is - and one the people who oversaw that lot got an OBE!

 

[Slick]

It certainly is - and one the people who oversaw that lot got an OBE!

Ha, I was going ask but I just assumed that they would either have the decency to go or they would have been sacked.

 

[NorthernDave]

Ha, I was going ask but I just assumed that they would either have the decency to go or they would have been sacked.

Oh no - most of them are still in a "public servant" role in one way or another.

 

[Andy in Germany]

The picture above got me thinking about some of the 'interesting' situations in Stuttgart:

"Ruhbank" station on my morning commute is a tangle of track inset into the surface because the metre gauge museum line loops around here but the standard gauge modern line carries on I have to wiggle through this to get across the main road and into the forest:

It isn't too bad. Certainly easier than one part of a previous commute. Stuttgart has the only rack tram in Germany (Think Snowdon mountain railway, cogs on the tram, toothed rail in the track) there are two places the track crosses the road at a very gentle angle. This is the lower one, with my route in red:

That was good for giggles coming down hill with an impatient Mercedes driver on my tail.

Where the old and new lines run together, we have the added fun that they of course need three rails:

Surprisingly, none of these cause major problems. The worst of the system to my mind isn't inset track, it's the appalling design of crossings in the more rural areas, like this one that I have to cross fairly frequently with the Bakfiets:

That's pretty much the route I have to follow with a bike as long as the Bakfiets, which raises the question: Why?
Whenever I ask people here I'm told it's for 'safety', except that of course, where cars cross the track there is no such wiggle. Secondly it's more dangerous than a straight crossing. As you approach you are forced to ride parallel to the track and have your back to any approaching tram, so you're relying on the lights working. Then you have to navigate the bike through that wiggle and over the rails, and the Bakfiets with its 20" front wheel has to turn nearly 180° to get around the first barrier, and then you have to yank the handlebars to turn the wheel the other way before you hit the second track, or just carry on along the middle of the tramway. The grooves are noticeably wider than on the inset sections too.
Still, I've not managed to come a cropper on them in 14 years.

 

[Andy in Germany]

Possibly in Germany they employ tramway or highway engineers who know what they're doing and are allowed to spend money on actually making the system operate safely and efficiently.

I did wonder about that: possibly because Germany kept a lot of tram lines and and a higher cycling rate, engineers are used to dealing with bikes and design accordingly (with the exceptions above)

And yes, we certainly have more of a 'get on with it' attitude to this sort of thing, a combination I suspect of local cities having the financial power to do stuff if they think it's worthwhile, and a less litigious society.

 

[classic33]

Possibly in Germany they employ tramway or highway engineers who know what they're doing and are allowed to spend money on actually making the system operate safely and efficiently.

Over here it seems the preferred method is to chuck at least half the budget at consultants, marketing and focus groups, who then produce pointless things like mission statements and dilute the original plan with lots of well intended but poorly thought out ideas that suck up even more of the budget before any work is actually carried out.

For example, here in the capital of the North, our leaders managed to spend £40 million on not building anything: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leeds_Supertram
This then increased to £70 million as a consequence of not building anything else: https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...eds-trolleybus-scheme-is-thrown-out-1-7907098

Now you know why the centre of the Headrow is as wide as it is.

The old bus station, on the right as you head up, was to have been one of the stations/stops.