Damned if you do, Damned if you don't :P

[downfader]

How do you know he is in the right? Thomas has not said that he was signalling to turn right, just that his road position was correct for turning right. Also, if he now tells he did signal, which I reckon he will do, how do we know? We can't see it.

The roundabout is indeed a 3 'entry/exit' one, so who is on whose right? Like I said if the guy had come all the way around, then he would have been on Thomas's right wouldn't he. Do not assume that someone is right just because he is in our gang, he has been clearly in the wrong before, he may well be this time, or at least a 50/50 call, I see nothing to state he's definitely right.

Remember Dr Suess and his cautionary tale on life The Zax.

Thats the second time I've read a post by you that is entirely condesending...

I'll say it again - you need to restudy RABs until you understand them properly. I'll take this SLOOOWWLLY for you shall I?

Thomas is entering from point a. The other cyclist from point b, and point c is the turn thomas is making. Now from the other cyclist's perspective on his right is point a. Therefore the other cyclist should have ceded priority. I'll agree that no harm would ever have come from this but its a habit we should get ourselves used to regardless of vehicle used.

Signalling in this case was described from the off actually in the text of his video. As the highway code states signalling can be besides the point and yes we should assume others wont. However if we get into the habit of proper procedure this wont be as much an issue.

Lastly if we are to challenge whether he signalled by what we actually see in the video then how do we know he was riding a bike? He could have been on foot or skateboard even. If you're going to sink to psuedo-Schrodingers theorum no less.

 

[thomas]

So if you have to give way to the right, then Thomas was in the wrong as the other guy was on his right wasn't he?

No, my right would of been the traffic from the junction on the right. Had he been signalling right and on the roundabout then it would also have been him, if he was not on the roundabout it would have been a judgement call about if I went would I have to slow him down, if yes then I'd of stayed.

It's a bloody circle! At that point he didn't know if the chap had left his pencil case in the classroom and was going to do a u-turn to go back and fetch it did he? Thomas should not have put himself in a situation where he had to brake, or get an apology from the other chap.

Even if the chap was going to make a u-turn, which he could of done quite safely, he would still have slowed me down before he got to the back of me to actually go fully around the roundabout. Therefore not giving me priority. No matter what, I would of had to have braked, either as you seem to be arguing, to stop by the give way sign to wait for him to 'cut in front' (so to speak) or where I did, safely on the roundabout. I would have thought the guy's apology would show that he felt he was in the wrong and as he was actually there he might know something.

I also find it concerning that Thomas has posted this and has justified his position by basically saying, "technically it was my right of way so he should have stopped" but last week he posted his complete balls up on the roundabout with the merc and basically wrote "technically it was his right of way, but he should have braked and given me more room". You can't have it both ways can you?!?!?!?

My point with the Merc was, when he saw me he intentionally sped up to cause a scene (which is dangerous) rather than accept I made a mistake and slow down (like I did in this video). I realised my mistake in the merc video, and like the cyclist here did to me, would have apologised. In the end of the day, we only learn from our mistakes, so I don't see why I can't talk about other peoples...

Learn to ride more considerately and with more fore-thought and I feel sure these incidents will become less. Or take off the bloody camera and lose the desire to play to it.

I did have fore-though, hence I didn't crash into him. You might have noticed, that at the end of the film I don't have any credits (eg, there are no actors!)

No, the other guy should have gived way to Thomas. Thomas is on the other cyclists right.

Yes & Thanks !

I'm afraid I agree.

I take the attitude that those approaching from the opposite direction are not going to give way to me, so I go at a speed which lets me brake quickly if I find my path blocked (which happens quite often).

I can't see how you agree with him...I was aware the guy wasn't going to stop so was ready to brake on the roundabout (which I did). Therefore I do what you do...

And I would add that I find it rather amusing that the OP states this part of the HC given his roundabout behaviour in his other video's.

You cannot have it both ways.

I could have quite easily not have posted those videos to have the higher moral ground. I probably shouldn't post any videos (along with other helmet camered cyclists), because in theory, I could make the same mistakes as everyone else. Hopefully, I have learnt from my previous experiences at roundabouts, so when I get to them, I think to myself and prepare a bit more.

How do you know he is in the right? Thomas has not said that he was signalling to turn right, just that his road position was correct for turning right. Also, if he now tells he did signal, which I reckon he will do, how do we know? We can't see it.

Like downfader says, I will admit...I was actually running around making bike noises. . I say in the video, and after my previous experience at that roundabout I make a point of signalling very clearly. As I realised the guy wouldn't stop, I carried on signalling to make my intentions very clear to him, but I also prepared to stop/slow. If I hadn't signalled so clearly, I probably wouldn't of had the apology.

If you don't believe I signalled then fine, but I could of just video edited the other cyclists in, etc, etc.....remember - I "act up" for the camera, so putting a few computer aided incidents in wouldn't be past me would it .

The roundabout is indeed a 3 'entry/exit' one, so who is on whose right? Like I said if the guy had come all the way around, then he would have been on Thomas's right wouldn't he.

Think I've already answered this in this post.

Do not assume that someone is right just because he is in our gang, he has been clearly in the wrong before, he may well be this time, or at least a 50/50 call, I see nothing to state he's definitely right.

So you think it's a 50/50 call? So after all that pressing into me about how wrong I was you think it could of been 50/50? Out of interest, what would of shown I was definitly in the right (obviously I cannot show it, but for personal interest).

Thats the second time I've read a post by you that is entirely condesending...

Lastly if we are to challenge whether he signalled by what we actually see in the video then how do we know he was riding a bike? He could have been on foot or skateboard even. If you're going to sink to psuedo-Schrodingers theorum no less.

hahaha...

 

[tom_e]

Erm, it's a _mini_ roundabout. As the highway code says about them (181):

"Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. "

So, like every other road user on a mini roundabout, you slow down and be a bit more cautious for what others are doing. Yes, you signalled, he should have given way; but if he simply missed your signal then there isn't the reaction time to make way for you. Need to allow a bit more safety margin, IMO. Maybe the other guy should have too.

 

[thomas]

Erm, it's a _mini_ roundabout. As the highway code says about them (181):

"Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. "

So, like every other road user on a mini roundabout, you slow down and be a bit more cautious for what others are doing. Yes, you signalled, he should have given way; but if he simply missed your signal then there isn't the reaction time to make way for you. Need to allow a bit more safety margin, IMO. Maybe the other guy should have too.

I gave an appropriate safety margin - it's why I stopped and didn't crash into him! I don't think he missed my signal, hence he apologised.

Weirdly enough, you have the same name (most people call me tom) and initials as me (E is the first letter of my surname too).

 

[tom_e]

I gave an appropriate safety margin - it's why I stopped and didn't crash into him! I don't think he missed my signal, hence he apologised.

Ok, fair point. But I'm saying that wasn't just you being extra good, it's actually the only safe way to do mini-rabs, and the correct way.

To put it another way: anyone _can_ miss a signal, that's why you can't rely on a signal alone. (The fact he might have been taking the p**s and taking advantage of a nice person, unfortunately makes no difference to what you need to do. )

Weirdly enough, you have the same name (most people call me tom) and initials as me (E is the first letter of my surname too).

Heh, I kind of like it because it's not so popular, so I can get the same id in different places. 'tom' is usually already taken, grr.

 

[thomas]

Ok, fair point. But I'm saying that wasn't just you being extra good, it's actually the only safe way to do mini-rabs, and the correct way.

To put it another way: anyone _can_ miss a signal, that's why you can't rely on a signal alone. (The fact he might have been taking the p**s and taking advantage of a nice person, unfortunately makes no difference to what you need to do. )

In general, I think arm signals from cyclists are hard to misinterpret (unless you change your mind half way through).

With my past experience on roundabouts it probably should be classed as me being extra good (I'm sure someone else would point this out).


And welcome to CycleChat!

 

[beanzontoast]

In general, I think arm signals from cyclists are hard to misinterpret (unless you change your mind half way through). :

I wish every cyclist gave clear arm signals though - some of the ones I see are shockingly half-hearted!

 

[thomas]

I wish every cyclist gave clear arm signals though - some of the ones I see are shockingly half-hearted!

I go out with the UNI tri club. Some of them seem to think they're too important to signal (eg the leader). It really pisses me off as I have to try and double guess the leader so I can signal. I've only been out once or twice, so might just tell him/stop going if it carries on.

 

[beanzontoast]

I go out with the UNI tri club. Some of them seem to think they're too important to signal (eg the leader). It really pisses me off as I have to try and double guess the leader so I can signal. I've only been out once or twice, so might just tell him/stop going if it carries on.

Totally agree. Being an experienced rider doesn't mean you no longer need to give arm signals. It's common sense really. If we expect other road users to take us seriously, it doesn't do to pick and choose about things like giving clear arm signals.

 

[thomas]

oh Maggot. Before you say anything, my latest video might look like I've cut it so the driver comes off worst...Annoyingly my helmet camera has cut the scene (it seems to split videos up - does anyone know how to turn that off?/back up it does do it for me - or is mine broken?) so you might think, that I signalled the lady across just to honk her and go in front. All I can say is I didn't but you can believe what you like -deal? This video doesn't involve a roundabout thankfully


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVNIUQExXyk



Back to the roundabout, went around it without any problems today...and though not youtube worthy, I've uploaded a clip to another site.

The first car does a u-turn, and I'm weary that they're going to go around again so wait until they head off the roundabout. I'm still signalling clearly at this stage as I'm not confident if the Micra will go or not as they could possibly have nipped over. Nicely, they don't and I got through the roundabout without any issues....boring to watch isn't it , nice to ride though!

http://www.filefactory.com/file/af248f7/n/successful_roundabout_wmv


You have to scroll down, choose option 2 and enter the letters to download the file!

So we have a circle, A is to the right of B and C. B is to the right of C and A. C is to the right of A and B. Nowhere in rule 184 (I think?) does it say immediately to the right of, just to the right. So everyone is to the right of everyone else, it's why roundabouts work.

I've already said this:

Even if the chap was going to make a u-turn, which he could of done quite safely, he would still have slowed me down before he got to the back of me to actually go fully around the roundabout. Therefore not giving me priority.

 

[HLaB]

Before you say anything, my latest video might look like I've cut it so the driver comes off worst...Annoyingly my helmet camera has cut the scene (it seems to split videos up - does anyone know how to turn that off?/back up it does do it for me - or is mine broken?) so you might think, that I signalled the lady across just to honk her and go in front. All I can say is I didn't but you can believe what you like -deal? This video doesn't involve a roundabout thankfully


View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVNIUQExXyk

It might be that the memory card has got damaged and it having difficulty writing to it (I don't know the technical name for it), try reformatting the card or a different one.

 

[thomas]

It might be that the memory card has got damaged and it having difficulty writing to it (I don't know the technical name for it), try reformatting the card or a different one.

I'll try reformatting it - helmet cam fell of my head earlier (thankfully cars were a little bit away and I could stop them and pick it up).

All seems to still work but reformatting might be a good idea. Other thing is to contact oregon about if it's something the camera does and can be adjusted.

 

[downfader]

Actually theres a good reason for formatting it now and again, and doing it with a PC and card reader - the atc itself only deletes the files and doesnt clear the card as a proper format would.

I was amazed at how rugged mine was. Hit by a car, knocked on low branches and so on its worked rather well B)

 

[HLaB]

On the Gadget Show I think they placed one in a paddling pool and blew it up and it still worked.

 

[thomas]

Actually theres a good reason for formatting it now and again, and doing it with a PC and card reader - the atc itself only deletes the files and doesnt clear the card as a proper format would.

I was amazed at how rugged mine was. Hit by a car, knocked on low branches and so on its worked rather well B)

Stuff only seems to come off my bike (light the other week, camera this week), when I put in some effort to overtake another cyclists who are putting some effort in...pass them then something seems to fall off so i have to suddenly stop and turn around - grrr

On the Gadget Show I think they placed one in a paddling pool and blew it up and it still worked.

Hmm, so I didn't need to stop the car behind me - just let them run it over next time? Send you the bill if you're wrong .