Dangerous Bus Driver (yes another one)

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Scratch

Über Member
Location
Birmingham
Thanks again everyone,

I would like to go to the police but sadly I don't think based on the evidence in the video that there is a lot they'd do. Most people probably only know what it feels like to be overtaken in a car, if someone overtakes a bit close, so what?

Let's just hope TWM take it seriously!

Its been quite a while since anything like this has happened, I was starting to think I was wasting my time wearing my camera everyday, especially at 7 O'clock in the morning with hardly any traffic. Goes to show it could come in handy when you least expect it. Without the video the driver would have made up some excuse or denied everything and nothing would have come of it.
 
OK. Here is what I sent to Arriva. I have of course ignored the normal procedure for complaints and sent it for the attention of the managing director for Arrivia UK regions (buses) ;)

Dear Sir/madam,

I am unfortunately writing to you with details of a complaint against one of your drivers, specifically with regards to the danger that they placed a cyclist in. However, it is possible that something positive could come from this incident for your company and for awareness of general road safety.

On the 28th October 2008, I boarded one of your buses at Govan Bus Station at approximately 16:20 (a number 59 to Glenburn). The journey started uneventfully, until we reached the stretch of Govan Road adjacent to Govan ship yards. At the time the available road was quite narrow because, for the whole length of this section of road, cars were parked on both sides. Therefore, with traffic constantly coming in the other direction, there was no space for overtaking.

As we travelled along the road we came upon a cyclist who was progressing at a reasonable speed, approximately 15-18mph. Due to the parked cars and oncoming traffic, the correct thing for the driver to do in this situation would have been to keep behind the cyclist at a safe distance, either until the end of the road (some 50 or so seconds later) or to wait until it was safe to overtake, i.e. no oncoming cars. However, instead of taking this course of action the driver proceeded to close the gap with the cyclist until it was no more than about 2 or 3 metres.

The cyclist was more than aware of the vehicle bearing down on him (he kept glancing back), and from his behaviour it was obvious that he was not happy having the bus quite so close. This is perfectly understandable as the stopping distance for such a bus would have been considerably further than the 2 or 3 metres now separating them. The driver kept this position for about 20-30 seconds and then hit his horn. A further 10 seconds passed and then the driver proceeded to overtake the cyclist despite the oncoming traffic. This was a particularly dangerous [FONT=&quot]manoeuvre [/FONT] which forced the cyclist closer to the parked cars. As well as this the bus would have been well within touching distance of the cyclist during the manoeuvre placing him is considerable danger, had he wobbled at all. This manoeuvre completely contravened rule 163 of the Highway Code.

At this point I could not contain my disgust and asked the driver, 'Why did you hit your horn? What did the cyclist do wrong?' To which there was no reply.

A short while later, when the bus was approaching my stop I got up to get off and the following conversation took place (some of which I have recorded on my mobile phone):

Me: Why did you hit your horn at the cyclist?
Driver: How much room did he want?
Me: He has the right to as much room as he needs.., you were right up his ar*e
Driver: He was half way across the lane (He was not!)
Me: That was to try and prevent you overtaking dangerously

My recording unfortunately cuts out at this point. But the conversation went along the lines of,

Driver: and what is it to you?
Me: I'm a cyclist and so I understand what the problem was..
Driver: I'm a cyclist too. I don't cycle like that.
Me: Oh right....

Driver: right get aff ma bus... (It was my stop).
Me: That's fine, I will be reporting you
Driver: Aye, do that...


This drivers attitude was appalling. He felt the cyclist was in his way, so he was willing to bully him by sitting right on his back wheel which if the cyclist came off could be deadly, he used his horn illegally, and he overtook in a particularly dangerous manner. His attitude toward the cyclist was summed up by the replies he gave me.

I myself am a driver and a cyclist. In fact I am a cycle safety campaigner (a member of go-bike and the CTC) and have had some personal success in the past in encouraging First Bus to take part in a cycle safety campaign (http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/display.var.1817738.0.0.php). In general, I have found that bus drivers are some of the best drivers on the roads, however, as with every group of road users, including cyclists, there are good and bad. Therefore, as this example of bad bus driving has highlighted some bus drivers react very poorly to the presence of cyclists, I wonder if your company would be willing to take part in a cycling campaign, which would involve some driver education. For example, you could follow the example shown here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/wcc/news.htm in the section titled Cyclists and bus company work together to put road safety first).

Taking part in such a campaign would not only raise awareness of bus/cyclist conflict issues, it would also, hopefully, provide some positive media coverage for your company and get across the message to the general public that there should be mutual respect on the roads. Therefore, I have carbon copied this e-mail to the reporter that covered the original First Bus story. I know from talking to him since that he is keep to follow up the story, and I am sure he would be willing to run a positive story for your company if you chose to take part.

I look forward to hearing from you shortly with regards to my incident and to my suggestion of a road safety campaign. If you require a copy of the recording that I made, I can arrange to have that sent to you, either via e-mail or by other means.

Yours sincerely
 

Amanda P

Legendary Member
In my opinion, the letter (Scratch's) is too long. Keep it to under one page and cut out some of the repitition. The video really speaks for itself anyway.

Why not cc a copy to the local police? Up to them whether they do anything, but if the bus company can see you're copying the police in on the letter, they may feel more inclined to act.
 
OP
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Scratch

Über Member
Location
Birmingham
Yes I might shorten it, sometimes when you're in a bad mood it helps to have a rant. I can probably cut out a lot or repetition.

As I thought it couldn't hurt I popped out at lunch time and reported it to the police. The PC at the station seemed a little unimpressed but it has been logged. Nothing will happen untill I fill in a report and send it to the police station that covers the area where it happened. So we'll see what they do.

I'll have another look at my letter and a look at incorperating Magnaton's and report back if and when I get any responses.

Magnaton, how did you get the MD's name/address? Companies house?
 
Scratch said:
Magnaton, how did you get the MD's name/address? Companies house?

No, I've just sent it to the general address and on the subject line put FAO....

Might work, might not, but worth a try! :blush:
 

domd1979

Veteran
Location
Staffordshire
Scratch - Those buses have forward facing CCTV (they may have rear as well), so would be worth inviting them to review it. Wouldn't bother with sending it to customer care. Neil Barker is MD, so bung it to him at head office I reckon:

51 Bordesley Green,
Bordesley,
BIRMINGHAM,
B9 4BZ,

Email should be neilbarker@travelwm.co.uk (though they are now National Exress West Mids, but hopefully travelwm domain should work).



Scratch said:
Yes I might shorten it, sometimes when you're in a bad mood it helps to have a rant. I can probably cut out a lot or repetition.

As I thought it couldn't hurt I popped out at lunch time and reported it to the police. The PC at the station seemed a little unimpressed but it has been logged. Nothing will happen untill I fill in a report and send it to the police station that covers the area where it happened. So we'll see what they do.

I'll have another look at my letter and a look at incorperating Magnaton's and report back if and when I get any responses.

Magnaton, how did you get the MD's name/address? Companies house?
 
OP
OP
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Scratch

Über Member
Location
Birmingham
Thanks,

I'll be sure to send a copy to Neil.

domd1979 said:
Scratch - Those buses have forward facing CCTV (they may have rear as well), so would be worth inviting them to review it. Wouldn't bother with sending it to customer care. Neil Barker is MD, so bung it to him at head office I reckon:

51 Bordesley Green,
Bordesley,
BIRMINGHAM,
B9 4BZ,

Email should be neilbarker@travelwm.co.uk (though they are now National Exress West Mids, but hopefully travelwm domain should work).
 

HF2300

Insanity Prawn Boy
Oliver, unless you've revised it since posting your first letter's pretty good - I'd just re-read it to pick up one or two literals / typos in there and edit the odd repeat as you go.

The first overtake I'd have said just poor driving, but the second was without doubt an attempt to intimidate - obviously felt you were occupying his bus lane and holding him up, despite all that empty road. I take it it's a combined bus and cycle lane - I couldn't see the signs clearly, though it looked like it. Not that it'd be any excuse even if it's not.

If you've got to report it to a different police station, it might be worth sending your report direct to the traffic division along with your video. I don't imagine for a minute they'll do anything unless they see it, but the video's pretty conclusive and prima facie.

Keep the pressure up, because that kind of driving is just completely unacceptable - you may save someone from getting knocked off by the same guy.

Magnatom, isn't that Arriva letter a little... wordy?
 
HF2300 said:
Magnatom, isn't that Arriva letter a little... wordy?

:blush:

Aye, but I'm hopping it will bypass the normal complaints department, so hopefully someone will read it.

I was also writing it for the benefit of the newspaper reporter that I was CCing it to! :ohmy:
 

goo_mason

Champion barbed-wire hurdler
Location
Leith, Edinburgh
Just seen the video now that I'm home, Scratch.

Bloody hell - what a reckless maniac ! To do it TWICE was beyond belief - I hope you have some success with your letter.
 

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
That was definitely dangerous driving, and I think with the video evidence you have, and the CCTV footage likely to be recoverable from the bus, there is enough there to support police action.

I would ask in your letter to the bus company that they recover and hold safe any CCTV footage from the bus so that it can be made available to the police if required.

Ben
 

spen666

Legendary Member
Sh4rkyBloke said:
At the very least say that you want proof that something is being done about this or you will be straight off to the police...

no, in fact I'd be off to the police anyways, regardless of whether they do anything about it - that was basically attempted GBH/ABH with a deadly weapon, and at the very least driving without due care.

It might be if you were in the USA or some othercountry, but there is no such offence in England & Wales.

It was at least careless driving, if not dangerous driving though
 
OP
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Scratch

Über Member
Location
Birmingham
Hi guys. I re-jigged my letter and have posted it to the MD Neil Barker. I've sent carbon copies to customer services and to the Police along with my self reporting form. So we'll just have to see what happens from here.

Its fortunate in a way that I'll be working at a different site for the next 6 months so hopefully I won't have to worry that this guy will happen upon me again.

And yes I have already had the obligatory "your an idiot I hope the bus driver runs you over next time" type comments on youtube. (yes I spelt you're wrong for the full chav effect)

Thanks for your help.
 

snapper_37

Barbara Woodhouse's Love Child
Location
Wolves
Wow. Haven't been able to watch that until now Scratch.

It's bothered me because I get that quite a lot *makes mental note to get a head cam*.

Hope you get some action on this.
 
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