Dangerous Driving - Not an offense?

[TonyEnjoyD]

Agree. I've complained to the police in the past and had no response.

I've had responses and take their word that there are notes on the driver's record from Aviva (in SW London), First, Wincanton (a foodstuffs tanker), and a skip hire company.

No response though from a local taxi firm or from an ambulance trust when I complained.

Those are over about the past 15 years. If it happened a lot more often I might buy a video camera and start sending evidence in or posting it online.

Davidc - for taxis you need to complain to the local council who control and license the service.
I'm an ex cabbie in Sunderland and as with all cabs there is a driving code of conduct which must be adhered to.
Having the council responsible and plate number would help if you have it.
Tony

 

[gaz]

What kind of a police officer where you speaking to? A desk jockey?

Let's see the video.

 

[spen666]

Spoke to the police today about a First bus in Sheffield which overtook me giving about a foot of room (if that) as there was another vehicle on the oncoming carriageway, all on camera.

They said that there wasn't much they could do (apart from having a word) as it's not an offense or illegal to drive like that and that I should accept that some people on the road are just not very courteous, they advised me to get a mirror to see if someone was approaching dangerously. During my appointment they weren't very keen on viewing my video and didn't seem to want to see it, I seemed to have to persuade them to watch it. Can anyone back their position up or refute it? I'm not convinced that they are correct that the driver didn't commit an offense, and I'm VERY VERY keen to take it further.

(Still from the video here http://i.imgur.com/WTjvu.png)

Cheers,

Matt

Its an offence to drive without due consideration for road users - aka careless driving

 

[alicat]

If you've got a video why not show it to the bus company - more likely to get a positive outcome IMHO

 

[gaz]

From the CPS

What is 'Dangerous driving'?

A person drives dangerously when:

• the way they drive falls far below the minimum acceptable standard expected of a competent and careful driver; and
• it would be obvious to a competent and careful driver that driving in that way would be dangerous.

Some typical examples from court cases of dangerous driving are:

• racing, going too fast, or driving aggressively;
• ignoring traffic lights, road signs or warnings from passengers;
• overtaking dangerously;
• driving under the influence of drink or drugs, including prescription drugs;
• driving when unfit, including having an injury, being unable to see clearly, not taking prescribed drugs, or being sleepy;
• knowing the vehicle has a dangerous fault or an unsafe load;
• the driver being avoidably and dangerously distracted, for example by:
  • using a hand-held phone or other equipment
  • reading, or looking at a map
  • talking to and looking at a passenger
  • lighting a cigarette, changing a CD or tape, tuning the radio.

What is 'Careless or inconsiderate driving'?

A person drives carelessly or inconsiderately when the way they drive falls below the minimum acceptable standard expected of a competent and careful driver.
Some examples of careless driving are:

• overtaking on the inside;
• driving too close to another vehicle;
• driving through a red light by mistake;
• turning into the path of another vehicle;
• the driver being avoidably distracted by tuning the radio, lighting a cigarette etc.

Examples of inconsiderate driving include:

• flashing lights to force other drivers to give way;
• misusing lanes to gain advantage over other drivers;
• unnecessarily staying in an overtaking lane;
• unnecessarily slow driving or braking;
• dazzling other drivers with un-dipped headlights.

 

[benb]

If the bus came as close as you say, then it seems like careless driving to me.

However, to defend the police a little bit here, they simply don't have the resources to prepare a case for every crime reported. Furthermore I would be astounded if the CPS decided to progress the case to seek a conviction, again because of lack of resources. It's not great, but it's an imperfect world.

I certainly think you would be justified in going back and asking the police to justify their reluctance to progress the case: saying no offence has been committed is just a fob-off.

I would complain directly to the bus company; you'll have more chance of some action being taken.

 

[growingvegetables]

If the bus came as close as you say, then it seems like careless driving to me.

However, to defend the police a little bit here, they simply don't have the resources to prepare a case for every crime reported. Furthermore I would be astounded if the CPS decided to progress the case to seek a conviction, again because of lack of resources. It's not great, but it's an imperfect world.

I certainly think you would be justified in going back and asking the police to justify their reluctance to progress the case: saying no offence has been committed is just a fob-off.

I would complain directly to the bus company; you'll have more chance of some action being taken.

+1

What would I want there? Bottom line - that the bus driver doesn't do it again. It doesn't really matter who gives him a bollo**ing, police or manager, and it makes sense that the police choose to let First management deal with it.

Complain to the bus company - aye, and copy to the SYPTE (unfortunately not so "complaint-friendly" as West Yorkshire Metro).

 

[Matt_Sheffield]

Thanks for all the advice.

I didn't go to the bus company as I've done this before and I've now got multiple copies of their 'sorry' template letter. I was never really satisfied as they always seemed to ignore my comments and send the standard letter with something along the lines of 'we'll talk to the driver but can't tell you the outcome'.

The police were an alternative avenue but that seems not to have worked out very well, I'll still follow it through, I'll ask why they advised me that there was no law broken when there seem to be applicable laws designed for this type of incident (just un-courteous drivers and I should get a mirror to watch out for them).

I understand that they need to make a decision whether to pursue legal action, but being under the impression that something isn't a crime when it seems to be is troubling.

I'll post the video later.

 

[gaz]

I'm in a similar position at the moment after this incident -
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hf0pzC1Jgb8


I was told it would go for prosecution, then it didn't and the driver just got a letter because it wasn't careless driving.
Currently trying to find out why it isn't careless driving etc... etc....

I don't have a problem with them not prosecuting but why say it isn't something when it so clearly is.

 

[boydj]

That looks like a very deliberate push into the gutter, which is way more than careless or without due consideration. Certainly worth some action by the police.

 

[Paul J]

Don't these cameras you have on your bikes be set to record/ display the time stamp? If they do turn it on when you use them as then there is no dispute that the recording has been doctored. Complaining to the police is always pointless as they almost always come up with a reason not to investigate due to the piles of paperwork it involves.

 

[BSRU]

Don't these cameras you have on your bikes be set to record/ display the time stamp? If they do turn it on when you use them as then there is no dispute that the recording has been doctored. Complaining to the police is always pointless as they almost always come up with a reason not to investigate due to the piles of paperwork it involves.

Most helmet camera's do not have a timestamp displayed in the video, the very few that do often the user removes it.
Although the Contour GPS/Plus have GPS data embedded in the video which can be seen with the correct viewing software.

 

[Paul J]

Most helmet camera's do not have a timestamp displayed in the video, the very few that do often the user removes it.

Thats a bummer as then they wouldn't be able to dispute the time of the incident etc.

 

[BSRU]

Thats a bummer as then they wouldn't be able to dispute the time of the incident etc.

It is not vitally important as normally "when something precisely happened" is not required. They can generally see from the creation date stamp on the original video file when approximately something happened.