Daytime running lights

[Drago]

It's a long story and not for here, but I once wound a Buddhist monk up so much that he too told me to foxtrot oscar.

It's the twits who drive through the village at night and dont dip their headlamps that foxtrot me off. Its blummen painful when I'm out walking the dog, but a quick dose of LED Lenser usually gives them the hint. I had one geezer stop and ask why I was shining my torch in his face and I replied because he was shining his main beams in my face. Thick as porcine faeces some people, and proof if ever there was that the driving test should include and IQ test.

 

[icowden]

To be fair, I doubt that many people know that the highway code says that you don't need to have your headlights on if there is street lighting.
I know I didn't. For most people it's a simple "lights on when it is dark" rule. Although these days most vehicles turn the lights on themselves.

 

[confusedcyclist]

To be fair, I doubt that many people know that the highway code says that you don't need to have your headlights on if there is street lighting.
I know I didn't. For most people it's a simple "lights on when it is dark" rule. Although these days most vehicles turn the lights on themselves.

I had to look that up because I couldn't believe it. I was always taught that after dusk, lights are mandatory! I'll not be flashing (headlights, you smutty bugger you) at anyone who is driving without lights on lit streets anymore

 

[Jody]

I had to look that up because I couldn't believe it. I was always taught that after dusk, lights are mandatory! I'll not be flashing (headlights, you smutty bugger you) at anyone who is driving without lights on lit streets anymore

As I read it, lights are mandatory but the use of headlights in a lit 30 road is not. Can anyone offer clarification on this? Can driving round without your dipped beam not be used as a mitigating factor in the event of an accident?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

As I read it, lights are mandatory but the use of headlights in a lit 30 road is not. Can anyone offer clarification on this? Can driving round without your dipped beam not be used as a mitigating factor in the event of an accident?

You can just use your side lights, unless it's been changed? That use to be the first setting on the light switch before you reach headlight.

 

[confusedcyclist]

You can just use your side lights, unless it's been changed? That use to be the first setting on the light switch before you reach headlight.

That would appear to be correct.

 

[icowden]

The problem is that what is "correct" doesn't necessarily correlate with what is expected. Or - just because you can, doesn't mean you should...
For example around me there are numerous "dark spots" regardless of the street lighting, and also some roads that are unlit.
Of course, if you have a newer car, it will be doing the lights for you anyway...

 

[gbb]

Keeping to DRLs, I struggle to see the problem.
Side lights are 5w, DRLs are 21w headlamps are I believe 50w.
If I turn on sides (front and of course rear), fronts revert to 5w.
Ditto headlights.
My SIL is a truck driver and he says give him the choice of sides or DRLs in his rear view mirrors in any borderline wet weather....he can see DRLs waaay before sides. If for no other reason, they're good in those circumstances...and perhaps we need to remember, it may be those kind of circumstances that made legislators consider them worthwhile, the rest of the time they are perhaps irrelevant..
Cost ? It's a £4 bulb so the manufacturers aren't making anything, on my type at least.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Keeping to DRLs, I struggle to see the problem.
Side lights are 5w, DRLs are 21w headlamps are I believe 50w.
If I turn on sides (front and of course rear), fronts revert to 5w.
Ditto headlights.
My SIL is a truck driver and he says give him the choice of sides or DRLs in his rear view mirrors in any borderline wet weather....he can see DRLs waaay before sides. If for no other reason, they're good in those circumstances...and perhaps we need to remember, it may be those kind of circumstances that made legislators consider them worthwhile, the rest of the time they are perhaps irrelevant..
Cost ? It's a £4 bulb so the manufacturers aren't making anything, on my type at least.

That’s an example of reduced visibility. I’d like to think any competent driver would have the sense to switch on lights as required by the circumstances.

One of the problems with DRLs is that they are on even in perfect conditions, where they serve no purpose, and can obscure the presence of other road users.

 

[Drago]

Think of it this way. If DRLs are so clever, why do audi dim theirs to enable other road users to be able to see the indicators? What else are they obscuring from view?

 

[gbb]

That’s an example of reduced visibility. I’d like to think any competent driver would have the sense to switch on lights as required by the circumstances.

One of the problems with DRLs is that they are on even in perfect conditions, where they serve no purpose, and can obscure the presence of other road users.

Competent drivers ? Mistakes are made all the time, some unwitting, unintentional, some more deliberate but even within this discussion by cyclists, theres been confusion as when to use lights and what to use...so perhaps automating it with DRL s can have some benefit.
Your second point, obscures the presence of other road users, I honestly have seen no evidence of it (while accepting that's just me so there MAY be some circumstances in which they may) ...but given I'm a careful driver, I have NO problem seeing everything and everyone and DRLs on other vehicles have presented me with NO known hinderance whatsoever.

I'd buy the arguement in general if the evidence supported it but I'm yet to be convinced.

 

[gbb]

I'd extend the above thoughts...I have NO problems seeing everything and everyone and I think it's because I dont rush around. The one thing I keep impressing on my DIL who is a new driver...the more you rush around, the higher your speed, the LESS time you have to make decisions, the more likely you are to have an accident. Personally I'd like to see that ...and observation, observation, observation...heavily impressed on learner drivers...for everyone's sake.

 

[Drago]

Competent drivers ? Mistakes are made all the time, some unwitting, unintentional, some more deliberate but even within this discussion by cyclists, theres been confusion as when to use lights and what to use...so perhaps automating it with DRL s can have some benefit.
Your second point, obscures the presence of other road users, I honestly have seen no evidence of it (while accepting that's just me so there MAY be some circumstances in which they may) ...but given I'm a careful driver, I have NO problem seeing everything and everyone and DRLs on other vehicles have presented me with NO known hinderance whatsoever.

I'd buy the arguement in general if the evidence supported it but I'm yet to be convinced.

Next time a modern Audi is coming towards you, watch it closely.

In the early 80's Honda did a lot of research into daytime lighting. At the time they owned the worlds largest searchlight manufacturer. so had a lot of expertise on optics to call upon.

They discovered that over-bright lighting during daytime conditions increased the chances of certain types of collision, mainly T bone incidents. The human brain calculates the speed of an oncoming object by the rate at which it increases in size in relation to the surroundings. Over bright lighting breaks up the outline of the vehicle, thus depriving the observer of this datum, making it harder to accurately calculate speed. Something as innocuous as normal dip-beam headlamps being illuminated on an otherwise good visibility day was enough to trigger this phenomenon.

Suzuki were later to do similar testing and research, albeit smaller in scale, and repeated Hondas findings.

The human brain has not adapted to benefit from lighting in good conditions because such lighting does not exist in nature, where lighting is provided by a point source at a separate position to both observer and observed.

So when you're next able to do so, take a moment to watch that Audi. With an awareness of the above phenomenon in your mind you can actually see how it deprives the observer of a proper view of the outline of the vehicle as it approaches. The effect is visible to anyone with eyes and an awareness of the effect. Because you're a careful driver like me who takes their time the impact upon you is minimal, but for the average road user who flies about the place and leaves little room for error something as small as that can be enough to trip them up.

As an aside, I'm sure you meant no Ill, but could I ask you not to emphasis words with caps like that please? I'm dyslexic, and that really makes text difficult for me to read, which is doubtless the opposite effect to that which you intended

 

[winjim]

Think of it this way. If DRLs are so clever, why do audi dim theirs to enable other road users to be able to see the indicators? What else are they obscuring from view?

I find that overcomplicated and confusing. The lights are on but then switch off to allow the indicator to be seen. The indicator is no longer a simple flash but a chase sequence. Other lights go on on just one side when the car is going round a corner. Honestly, there are so many lights going on and off in weird combinations it's way too much information to decode and process.

 

[Mark pallister]

I have a garmin varia radar so always have a rear light on
if I didn’t I would still have a rear flashing light ,might do no good but certainly does no harm