De Tour , Giro , Vuelta treble

[T4tomo]

And a special prize for the only rider to complete all 3 in a season and never finish better than 100th
Julian Dean (NZL) 2009 (T:121,G:136,V:132) who coincidentally also holds the record for being the recipient of the most headbutts from Mark Renshaw.

What about a little mention for Adam Hansen, 20 consecutive grand tours (incl one with broken sternum), 60th best overall placing although he did pick up a couple of stage wins.

Realistically no-one nowadays sets out to win the GC in all 3 tours (very few even race all 3 given the gap between Giro and Vuelta). In the earlier years the Vuelta was before the Giro and much less prestigious, so more used as a warm up for those with serious Giro / Tour aspirations, and even then the Spaniards used to ride the Vuelta but not the Giro and the Italian vice versa.

I think I'm correct in saying that anyone who has won 2 GTs in a season has not even entered the 3rd.

 

[Dogtrousers]

When i say CLOSE i mean finishing 2nd , 3rd , 4th

See my post above https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/de-tour-giro-vuelta-treble.296736/#post-7171387

 

[Dogtrousers]

I think I'm correct in saying that anyone who has won 2 GTs in a season has not even entered the 3rd.

Probably

The stats above show that no one has won two and completed the third.

Whether someone has won two and DNFd the third I leave as an exercise for the reader

 

[Aravis]

The evolution of the Vuelta from it's birth in 1935 onwards is highly interesting. It's been annual since 1955, but that editionm was the first since 1950 and there had been other breaks before that. There were plenty of good names in the 1955 start list, along with a high proportion of Spaniards who are names only in Wikipedia terms.

I don't think it's fair to dismiss the Vueltas of this period as just a warm-up for any top riders taking part. One thing the Vuelta organisers were consistently good at was attracting most of the big names at least once. We have Gimondi, Merckx, Maertens and Battaglin who won on their only participation, whilst other winners including Zoetemelk, Anquetil, Janssen and Pingeon entered twice. The list of champions through the 60s and 70s hardly makes it look like an unimportant race, even if that may be partly illusory.

In the 50s and early 60s the Vuelta was a two-week race and only gradually evolved into the three-week grand tour format. So the period in which there were three three-week races - Spain, Italy and France - in quick succession lasted no more that 30 years.

Geminiani and Nencini certainly look like guys who would have thrived on hard work and tough racing, but was either seriously attempting to win each grand tour he entered? Nencini died quite young but Geminiani has remained a cycling icon for decades and there must be a wealth of material - interviews and the like - out there to provide insights.

But apart from those two, it's safe to assume that no-one has ever tried to win all three in a season. The achievements of Froome in 2017/18 and Kuss last year suggest that nowadays it might not be a totally unrealistic proposition. I did wonder last year whether Vindigo was testing the water at the Vuelta, seeing how successful he could be should he ever want to enter again as an afterthought. It's not hard to imagine him winning Giro-Tour double one day, and if he does the Vuelta experience will be very useful.

Pogacar's still going for the Giro-Tour double this year, isn't he? I don't think many expect him to succeed, but the luck could go his way. He doesn't seem like one to back off any sort of challenge, so surely he'd try for the Vuelta if the treble's on - provided he's healthy of course.

 

[T4tomo]

But apart from those two, it's safe to assume that no-one has ever tried to win all three in a season. The achievements of Froome in 2017/18 and Kuss last year suggest that nowadays it might not be a totally unrealistic proposition. I did wonder last year whether Vindigo was testing the water at the Vuelta, seeing how successful he could be should he ever want to enter again as an afterthought. It's not hard to imagine him winning Giro-Tour double one day, and if he does the Vuelta experience will be very useful.

Pogacar's still going for the Giro-Tour double this year, isn't he? I don't think many expect him to succeed, but the luck could go his way. He doesn't seem like one to back off any sort of challenge, so surely he'd try for the Vuelta if the treble's on - provided he's healthy of course.

I think its less likely in modern times, it needs someone to maintain top form from May - September with very little rest, and have no interest in the World Champs. Froome never started more than 2 GTs per season, the year he won La Vuelta, he didnt do the Giro, and whilst Kuss road all 3 last season, it was as a domestique. it was only after he won in a breakaway that they switched from Roglic to Kuss as the main man, and he was helped by Jumbo being the strongest team by far.

 

[Dogtrousers]

[...]
Geminiani and Nencini certainly look like guys who would have thrived on hard work and tough racing, but was either seriously attempting to win each grand tour he entered?
[...]
But apart from those two, it's safe to assume that no-one has ever tried to win all three in a season.

My knowledge of "the olden days" is pretty sketchy but I'd guess that some of that breed of tough guys lined up on the start each time with hope, if not real expectation, of a win. So they were perhaps "seriously attempting to win". As a result of reading about him, Nencini is my new hero, and he has displaced Bingo from the Banana Splits (Cav's double) as my avatar.

But I agree with your second point. If even the great Eddy Merckx never tried it, it's probably not attainable. Although he is one of the select band to have been the current winner of all three simultaneously (split over two seasons).

I think its less likely in modern times, .

Given that nobody came particularly close to winning all three in a season in un-modern times that makes it very very very unlikely.

Over to you, Pog.

 

[Aravis]

[...]

But I agree with your second point. If even the great Eddy Merckx never tried it, it's probably not attainable. Although he is one of the select band to have been the current winner of all three simultaneously (split over two seasons).

[...]

It sounds extraordinary now, but I understand Merckx was asked by the organisers to stay away from the Tour in 1973. It would be interesting to read the exchange of whatsapp messages. It seems as though he made the best of things by entering the Vuelta for the only time (no doubt well compensated) and the Giro. By that time the Vuelta had grown into a 2½ week race, with only four clear days before the start of the Giro. The Tour started three weeks after the end of the Giro, and from what I understand of Merckx he could've been ready if the option were there. But of course the situation probably wouldn't have arisen had he been welcome at the Tour that year.

Ironically I think the Tour messed up here. Luis Ocana was at his absolute best and won the 1973 Tour by over 15 minutes with six stage wins, but perhaps would have happily gambled all that for the chance to beat Merckx by the narrowest of margins. This was a confrontation we were never able to see played out to it's conclusion.

I don't know whether the gap between the Vuelta and Giro was always so small. I see that I'm going to have to research this properly, and it will be interesting to see just how unusual (or otherwise) it used to be for a rider to contest both. But there is one statistic which hasn't been highlighted here so far: only three riders, Merckx (1973), Battaglin (1981) and Pantani (1998) have ever won the first two grand tours in a season, thereby putting themselves theoretically in a position to win all three. None of them contested the final GT.

I find it a little strange that no-one's completed the Giro/Tour double this century. Again, I don't know how many Giro winners have tried. If either Pogacar or Vindigo ever does it, and there's every reason to suppose they could, I think they'd both seriously consider contesting the third, making them the first to do so. No-one can win all three in a season until someone tries.

By the way, another rider who's been mentioned in this thread, Bernardo Ruiz, is well worth reading about. He can be spotted in archive YouTube video from the 1952 Tour where he finished a creditable third. A worthy hero from the past if ever there was one.

 

[T4tomo]

Ironically I think the Tour messed up here. Luis Ocana was at his absolute best and won the 1973 Tour by over 15 minutes with six stage wins, but perhaps would have happily gambled all that for the chance to beat Merckx by the narrowest of margins. This was a confrontation we were never able to see played out to it's conclusion.

Ocana probably / possibly had the beating of Merckx in 1971 tour, but retired after a crash accidently caused by Merckx.

In 73 as you say Ocana trounced everyone in the Tour, but Merckx had beaten him earlier in La Vuelta or his way to Vuelta / Giro double.

 

[slow scot]

It sounds extraordinary now, but I understand Merckx was asked by the organisers to stay away from the Tour in 1973. It would be interesting to read the exchange of whatsapp messages. It seems as though he made the best of things by entering the Vuelta for the only time (no doubt well compensated) and the Giro. By that time the Vuelta had grown into a 2½ week race, with only four clear days before the start of the Giro. The Tour started three weeks after the end of the Giro, and from what I understand of Merckx he could've been ready if the option were there. But of course the situation probably wouldn't have arisen had he been welcome at the Tour that year.

Ironically I think the Tour messed up here. Luis Ocana was at his absolute best and won the 1973 Tour by over 15 minutes with six stage wins, but perhaps would have happily gambled all that for the chance to beat Merckx by the narrowest of margins. This was a confrontation we were never able to see played out to it's conclusion.

I don't know whether the gap between the Vuelta and Giro was always so small. I see that I'm going to have to research this properly, and it will be interesting to see just how unusual (or otherwise) it used to be for a rider to contest both. But there is one statistic which hasn't been highlighted here so far: only three riders, Merckx (1973), Battaglin (1981) and Pantani (1998) have ever won the first two grand tours in a season, thereby putting themselves theoretically in a position to win all three. None of them contested the final GT.

I find it a little strange that no-one's completed the Giro/Tour double this century. Again, I don't know how many Giro winners have tried. If either Pogacar or Vindigo ever does it, and there's every reason to suppose they could, I think they'd both seriously consider contesting the third, making them the first to do so. No-one can win all three in a season until someone tries.

By the way, another rider who's been mentioned in this thread, Bernardo Ruiz, is well worth reading about. He can be spotted in archive YouTube video from the 1952 Tour where he finished a creditable third. A worthy hero from the past if ever there was one.

Roche won the Giro and Tour in 1987, but didn’t do the Vuelta.

 

[T4tomo]

Roche won the Giro and Tour in 1987, but didn’t do the Vuelta.

Yes the Vuelta was still before the Giro in 87, so that "triple" was never on, but he did "accidently" win the Worlds & hence the Triple Crown that year, He was there to ride for Sean Kelly, but a break he was covering wasn't chased down and he managed to jump his break companions for the win. As a side note I read that in teh Giro he defied team orders and attacked his team mate Visentini who had taken Pink off Roche in an earlier ITT, gained several minutes and took Pink back which he held to the end, despite his manly Italian team turning against him, to the etent that he had former team mates Robert Millar and Phil Anderson as "unofficial" domestiques.

 

[matticus]

Yes the Vuelta was still before the Giro in 87, so that "triple" was never on, but he did "accidently" win the Worlds & hence the Triple Crown that year, He was there to ride for Sean Kelly, but a break he was covering wasn't chased down and he managed to jump his break companions for the win. As a side note I read that in teh Giro he defied team orders and attacked his team mate Visentini who had taken Pink off Roche in an earlier ITT, gained several minutes and took Pink back which he held to the end, despite his manly Italian team turning against him, to the etent that he had former team mates Robert Millar and Phil Anderson as "unofficial" domestiques.

Tsk, it's always such a soap opera with these cyclists, isn't it??

 

[Aravis]

Ocana probably / possibly had the beating of Merckx in 1971 tour, but retired after a crash accidently caused by Merckx.

In 73 as you say Ocana trounced everyone in the Tour, but Merckx had beaten him earlier in La Vuelta or his way to Vuelta / Giro double.

Well spotted, I'd missed that particular detail.

Ocana could be brilliant, but he could never be accused of being consistent. Considering just how intense was his rivalry with Merckx in the Tour, it would be interesting to find some more detail on how that Vuelta was played out. My guess is that Ocana was building for the Tour where he was going to be gifted a golden opportunity. It's always a good idea to hold onto second place in case something happens to the leader.

Research projects for my old age...

 

[Aravis]

I forgot that Fausto Coppi won the first two GTs in 1952 (Giro and Tour). As there was no Vuelta in either 1952 or 1953, his win in the 1953 Giro gave him three in a row, which I think ought to rank alongside Hinault and Froome. Merckx, being Merckx, did four in a row.

Chapeau Fausto!

 

[slow scot]

Yes the Vuelta was still before the Giro in 87, so that "triple" was never on, but he did "accidently" win the Worlds & hence the Triple Crown that year, He was there to ride for Sean Kelly, but a break he was covering wasn't chased down and he managed to jump his break companions for the win. As a side note I read that in teh Giro he defied team orders and attacked his team mate Visentini who had taken Pink off Roche in an earlier ITT, gained several minutes and took Pink back which he held to the end, despite his manly Italian team turning against him, to the etent that he had former team mates Robert Millar and Phil Anderson as "unofficial" domestiques.

Thanks for that; I’d forgotten the Vuelta was before the Giro then. The politics of his Giro win are, as you rightly say, well worth a read. Robert Millar, who wasn’t a team mate, certainly helped him win that Giro. Roche’s own team mates weren’t helping him in the latter stages.

 

[Aravis]

Thanks for that; I’d forgotten the Vuelta was before the Giro then. The politics of his Giro win are, as you rightly say, well worth a read. Robert Millar, who wasn’t a team mate, certainly helped him win that Giro. Roche’s own team mates weren’t helping him in the latter stages.

I remember following that race as it happened in the newspapers. I must've missed the opening day because Roche was already leading when I noticed it had started. He lost the lead to his Italian defending champion teammate, then took it back, but that is all I knew until details of the dramas started to emerge as the message got through to the editors and a bit more column space was allocated later in the race.

The amount of discussion/analysis out there now is astonishing! There is some opinion, which I do remember some saying at the time, that the crowd began to accept Roche towards the end; he'd been brave, had made the race exciting and Visentini was never really their favourite anyway.