Derailleur identification

[funk2monk]

Recently acquired these front and rear derailleur.
I can see that one is a Shimano Positron FH 400. Do not know anything about them. Looks good quality and I guess late 80’s?
The other set are marked Falcon but can’t see anything else on them? Guessing not rare or valuable but again not seen before.
over to you the experts to put me right and explain a bit more.

 

[KneesUp]

Positron was a quite short lived fore-runner of indexing. The derailleurs had no spring iirc - their position was set by a solid wire that pushed and pulled it - they need Positron shifters and cable which I would imagine in almost impossible to get now.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Positron was Shimano's first attempt at indexed shifting. It proved to be a bit of a disaster as the indexing was provided by the mech and I believe it used a two cable system which was hard to keep accurate. It was initially offered only in low end groupsets and was never taken seriously, dying a relatively quick death.

Shimano learned their lesson and when they introduced the system we still use now they brought it out firstly in the top end Dura Ace groupset, the rest being history.

 

[funk2monk]

Positron was a quite short lived fore-runner of indexing. The derailleurs had no spring iirc - their position was set by a solid wire that pushed and pulled it - they need Positron shifters and cable which I would imagine in almost impossible to get now.

Thank you for such a quick and informative answer. Guess this makes it quite a rare but valueless item. It’s so well made and I guess over complicated.
cheers

 

[SheilaH]

Certainly not worth putting on a bike

 

[funk2monk]

Positron was Shimano's first attempt at indexed shifting. It proved to be a bit of a disaster as the indexing was provided by the mech and I believe it used a two cable system which was hard to keep accurate. It was initially offered only in low end groupsets and was never taken seriously, dying a relatively quick death.

Shimano learned their lesson and when they introduced the system we still use now they brought it out firstly in the top end Dura Ace groupset, the rest being history.

Thank you for an informative answer. I’m always so surprised at this groups knowledge and expertise. Thank you greatly appreciated. Guess I will put it with all the other odds and sods I’ve collected over the years.
cheers

 

[midlife]

Falcon, from a well known website

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Falcon_derailleurs.html

 

[Drago]

Positron, late 70's. An early indexed system that was very unusual - the indexing was in the derailleur, not the shifter, and the cables had stiff inners that both pushed and pulled the mech.

It never worked very well and isn't worth a lot, but is a fascinating period piece. Have Positron 400 myself hanging on the shed wall, although mine has different style script stamped into it so may be a different year.

 

[Cycleops]

Thank you for an informative answer. I’m always so surprised at this groups knowledge and expertise. Thank you greatly appreciated.

T’internet is a wonderful thing . I’m always amazed at the number and diversity of different types of derailleurs. The site posted by @midlife is a wonderful resource.