Diesel dilemma ....

[MrGrumpy]

I posted in here a while back and still have not pulled the trigger on a replacement car, current CRV diesel is good albeit getting a bit tatty but petrol would be off no use to me due to a) big family effectively 4 adults and smaller child and b) I tow a caravan. Anything petrol and big enough to pull all that is going to drink fuel and produce torque at the wrong end. The current VW issue has already casted doubts in mind as to where to go now as nearly pulled the trigger on a nice Merc estate. I`m now waiting too see how far this goes ( might be able to pick up a nice used bargain )

 

[Electric_Andy]

I wouldn't go for a modern Diesel, they are fast becoming more and more expensive and unreliable as they are designed to act more like Petrols due to the consumer wanting the best of both worlds. particulate filters and the special oil that they need (plus labour) can often run into thousands. The high pressure fuel pumps (usually 3 of them) can also explode..not a big problem in itself but they tend to then contaminate the entire fuel system which has to be stripped, flushed or replaced.

Not sure where your 80mpg comes from - on a long run over flat terrain maybe, but all mpg figures need to be taken with a pinch of salt. My wife has the new Clio 0.9 TCE, it's 100 odd HP and claims silly MPG. It averages 38 around town and rises to 41 when I'm driving. A long motorway run still only returns high 60's MPG. That's good enough in my book, and I'd far rather have that than a modern Diesel.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Thousands to fix I presume is what you mean, if so I agree. If you just scoot about town, you will destroy a DPF. However, modern engines petrol or diesel are a hell of alot more reliable then the utter trash from the past. Speaking from personal experience here

 

[gbb]

It'd be interesting to get some real honest, true to life consumption figures, diesel or petrol.
Astra 1.6 SRI 2010, petrol, driven mostly on A roads, 60mph limits..I nearly always get 48 to 50mpg pver a tankfull. If I pushed it around, I suspect id get 45.
My son owns a 1.9 CDTI SRI Vectra, 2009and struggles to get 50 mpg but I suspect he's got a heavy foot. Both his last two diesels have needed new DMFs, usually costing IRO £800 by the time hes added in the clutches as well as a precaution.

 

[Profpointy]

It'd be interesting to get some real honest, true to life consumption figures, diesel or petrol.
Astra 1.6 SRI 2010, petrol, driven mostly on A roads, 60mph limits..I nearly always get 48 to 50mpg pver a tankfull. If I pushed it around, I suspect id get 45.
My son owns a 1.9 CDTI SRI Vectra, 2009and struggles to get 50 mpg but I suspect he's got a heavy foot. Both his last two diesels have needed new DMFs, usually costing IRO £800 by the time hes added in the clutches as well as a precaution.

clutches as well ?

 

[gbb]

clutches as well ?

Its one of those things, a bit like changing your cam belt and not the water pump. Theyre all closely connected, while yourw in there you might as well do it. Sods law, if you didn't do it, it'd fail soon after.

 

[Profpointy]

Its one of those things, a bit like changing your cam belt and not the water pump. Theyre all closely connected, while yourw in there you might as well do it. Sods law, if you didn't do it, it'd fail soon after.

yebbut how is the particulate filter (presumably in the exhaust somewhere?) anything to do with the.clutch?

or is it just on this particular model you have.to take the gearbox off to fit your finger in or something silly like that.

A friend had to scrap a car (French predictably) after a windscree wiper motor failed. Part was 50 quid or whatever but a grand or more labour as you had to take half the car apart : nuts !

 

[gbb]

yebbut how is the particulate filter (presumably in the exhaust somewhere?) anything to do with the.clutch?

or is it just on this particular model you have.to take the gearbox off to fit your finger in or something silly like that.

A friend had to scrap a car (French predictably) after a windscree wiper motor failed. Part was 50 quid or whatever but a grand or more labour as you had to take half the car apart : nuts !

Sorry, I think we're talking at cross purposes.
A couple people I know have replaced Dual Mass Flywheels on diesels...my son has had his fail on each of his last cars. The DMF is closely coupled to the clutch. I suspect many garages will recommend (not surprisingly, but perhaps sensibly) you do the clutch at the same time. This saves ypu potential labour charges later when and if your clutch does go.
In the same way, replacing a water pump while the cam belts are all off and they're closely connected.

 

[Profpointy]

Sorry, I think we're talking at cross purposes.
A couple people I know have replaced Dual Mass Flywheels on diesels...my son has had his fail on each of his last cars. The DMF is closely coupled to the clutch. I suspect many garages will recommend (not surprisingly, but perhaps sensibly) you do the clutch at the same time. This saves ypu potential labour charges later when and if your clutch does go.
In the same way, replacing a water pump while the cam belts are all off and they're closely connected.

are these two things remotely related though ? I appreciate modern diesels tend to have both, but at first sight they sound like they'd be in different parts of the car. I appreciate you might replace the dual-mass flywheel id the clutch goes as you'd have to take it all to bits anyway, especially as I gather DMFs tend to be flaky, but an exhaust part is something else surely?

Used to be a big fan of diesels but modern ones sound well dodgy. Went home on a lorry 3 times in my 4 year 120000 mile Skoda diesel, whilst its petrol (also Skoda and hooligan modelat that) predecessor was faultless as is its 15 year old petrol Saab sucessor. All similar miles

EDIT - sorry although the above is still (probably) right I mixed up different posts. DMF is a clutchy thing - agreed , and the particle filter (DPF is it) is indeed somethinglese

 

[gbb]

DMF isnt an exhaust part, its the flywheel with the starter ring around it. It mates onto the clutch face. Dual Mass Flywheel, if I get this right is a two part flywheel with springs between the two main parts, this reduces vibration. Trouble is, they seem to be inherently weak in some cars.

Particulate filter...must be someone else mentioned that part...not me chief

 

[gbb]

LPG gas conversions ? Have the dropped out of favour now, I never heqr them mentioned any more.

 

[Profpointy]

DMF isnt an exhaust part, its the flywheel with the starter ring around it. It mates onto the clutch face. Dual Mass Flywheel, if I get this right is a two part flywheel with springs between the two main parts, this reduces vibration. Trouble is, they seem to be inherently weak in some cars.

Particulate filter...must be someone else mentioned that part...not me chief

re-read and was answering the wrong post. Got it know

 

[Profpointy]

On DMFs the (forgetting filters for now) - is it purely to make the car quieter, and if so seems a poor swap for dubious rleiablity to solve a non-problem. I know I'm a bit old fashioned, but lots of these new ideas seem to be bollocks. Cat converter, particle filters etc I get as despite the cost they reduce harm to others, but things like the electric handbrake , dual clutches- what problem is that solving. Even automatic gearboxes, though no interest to me, have.some appeal to some people, but still..

 

[MrGrumpy]

Read alot about DMF before buying our current Honda 56 plate as was not an issue back then however the new shape ( not current ) were a mare for DMF dying, turbos on the X trails were another one. Next car will probably be an automatic, so if I`m right DMF will not be an issue persay. DPF though can be but seems to be more about the kind of journeys you do, i.e short journeys will kill it early. Modern diesels do seem to be fraught with danger, or you may have no problems whatsoever. Waiting now for the fall out from the latest VW scandal to see the lay of the land. Did have my eye on an E class estate diesel and its favourite for my next replacement!

 

[gbb]

Talking to my son in law who's a garage mechanic about the VW scandal. I wondered how they actually cheated, is it something complex ?...some trickery in the management system...no, he thought it was quite simple. Apparently part of the emissions test requires the tester to rev the engine at high (if not max) revs for a few seconds while the system is reading the exhaust emissions. What they appear to have done is..., while the clutch is not engaged and car not in gear, the engine will not rev beyond 2000 rpm. So, the emissions test isnt getting a real reading. It is controlled by the management system of course, but its not rocket science if he's right.