Disc Brake Road Bike, What's Feasible?

[MacB]

These have been around for years, did they give you one scrap of evidence of anyone who had ever had a problem with this system? Did you ask them if they could set their jig to make it and how much trouble that would be, ha!

Frustrating isn't it I think I'll go with my gut, and the convenience of being able to run road or MTB hubs, and accept that 132.5 is ok, I just can't believe sizeable manufacturers would have had this standard for so long if it caused problems. As I said my Surly Crosscheck frame is set up like this and it seems a pretty popular frameset. The VN Amazon frame is very tempting, coupled with a Kinesis DC19 carbon disc fork for about £1k all in from Fatbirds. But I still have questions around my plans and getting some info seems rather difficult, despite the wonder of the web. I have questions awating response from Genesis and Van Nicholas, but if anyone knows:-

VN Amazon frame - running it with disc brakes - I've only found one report on this on a thread on the CTC forum from a couple of years ago. The guy indicated that he had set it up but the 160mm rotor caught on the stays and he had to respace the axle to make room. Anyone know if VN addressed this, if it is an issue or if you could maybe run a 140mm rotor to solve it? It seems strange that a frame designed to accomodate disc brakes would have such a problem.

Genesis CdF dropouts - if I want to run the I-9 hub the manual indicates vertical dropouts need to be a minimum of 19mm, measured vertically, where the axle slots in. HJ, on here, kindly measured his CdF and reckons they are 15mm at this point. This puts a bit of a damper on my plans but I did always intend an Alfine hub for this bike eventually(shifter preferences). So Vin Cox ran an Alfine 8 on his CdF with a chain tensioner but did he have to modify the dropouts at all? I suppose it's all about rights and book deals these days, coz I can't seem to find detail specs, or close up images, of his round the world bike.

If anyone happens to know any of this would appreciate any feedback...cheers....Al

 

[GrumpyGregry]

back in October Genesis were saying they would get pics and details of Vin Cox's mods and would post them online. But then it's gone quiet. Perhaps if a couple of us post on their blog it might stimulate them into action. If they could build a Alfine 11 speed CdF for £1000 they are guaranteed at least one sale.

My guess is they will make one if, big if, they can get it down to the btw price point and if Alfine 11's become slightly less rare than hens teeth.

 

[PapaZita]

VN Amazon frame - running it with disc brakes - I've only found one report on this on a thread on the CTC forum from a couple of years ago. The guy indicated that he had set it up but the 160mm rotor caught on the stays and he had to respace the axle to make room. Anyone know if VN addressed this, if it is an issue or if you could maybe run a 140mm rotor to solve it? It seems strange that a frame designed to accomodate disc brakes would have such a problem.

That was probably me. Respacing the axle was a bit of a bodge. As you suggest, a 140mm disc did the trick, and still gives more than ample braking. I never did mention it to VN. It would be interesting to know if they have tweaked anything in this area, as they do seem to update their designs occasionally.

Anyway, I still ride the Amazon and think its great, mainly because it's so versatile. I have it set up for easy switching between a variety of cross, winter road, and touring duties, and it copes with it all. The disc brakes are BB7 road with STI levers, which are OK. I must admit that I still haven't got the hang of getting them adjusted just right. They're never bad, but once or twice I've hit on a perfect adjustment after which they're fantastic. The problem is that I can never seem to reproduce that, so most of the time I'm using these brakes which I know aren't quite as good as they should be...

PZ.

 

[MacB]

That was probably me. Respacing the axle was a bit of a bodge. As you suggest, a 140mm disc did the trick, and still gives more than ample braking. I never did mention it to VN. It would be interesting to know if they have tweaked anything in this area, as they do seem to update their designs occasionally.

Anyway, I still ride the Amazon and think its great, mainly because it's so versatile. I have it set up for easy switching between a variety of cross, winter road, and touring duties, and it copes with it all. The disc brakes are BB7 road with STI levers, which are OK. I must admit that I still haven't got the hang of getting them adjusted just right. They're never bad, but once or twice I've hit on a perfect adjustment after which they're fantastic. The problem is that I can never seem to reproduce that, so most of the time I'm using these brakes which I know aren't quite as good as they should be...

PZ.

PZ, thanks, great info there, if I remember rightly you were also considering using different brake cable outer as you were worried about compression loss. Did you do this and if so how did that work?

I used Goddridge outers on my Pompetamine build, with the BB7's, and it's one of the things that's really done exactly what I expected. There seems to be no compression loss whatsoever, any touch on main, or secondary, brake levers is immediately mirrored by caliper movement. These are both full outer cable runs, is it the same with your Amazon?

The Amazon is still well in the running for the derailler weekend disc brake bike, but the CdF is now facing competition from the Singular Peregrine frameset.

 

[PpPete]

Frustrating isn't it I think I'll go with my gut, and the convenience of being able to run road or MTB hubs, and accept that 132.5 is ok, I just can't believe sizeable manufacturers would have had this standard for so long if it caused problems. As I said my Surly Crosscheck frame is set up like this and it seems a pretty popular frameset. The VN Amazon frame is very tempting, coupled with a Kinesis DC19 carbon disc fork for about £1k all in from Fatbirds. But I still have questions around my plans and getting some info seems rather difficult, despite the wonder of the web. I have questions awating response from Genesis and Van Nicholas, but if anyone knows:-



If anyone happens to know any of this would appreciate any feedback...cheers....Al

I know a little bit about materials.... and have messed about with both "springing" steel frames to accomodate change from 126mm to 130mm - and cold-setting from 120 mm up to 135 mm (!) Involvement with Titanium tube through my work leads me to think that 132.5mm would be absolutely fine on Ti, but I'd hesitate to do so on Aluminium.

 

[MacB]

I know a little bit about materials.... and have messed about with both "springing" steel frames to accomodate change from 126mm to 130mm - and cold-setting from 120 mm up to 135 mm (!) Involvement with Titanium tube through my work leads me to think that 132.5mm would be absolutely fine on Ti, but I'd hesitate to do so on Aluminium.

thanks Pete, I must admit I'm not aware of any frames in Alu set up like this, my Surly is steel and the Amazon ti obviously. I keep saying to myself 1.25mm each side, it is a tiny amount. But my choices are 132.5 or 135, I wouldn't consider getting a 130 frame now.

 

[PapaZita]

PZ, thanks, great info there, if I remember rightly you were also considering using different brake cable outer as you were worried about compression loss. Did you do this and if so how did that work?

I did put on a set of Avid Flak-Jackets, which made a small, but useful, difference. The Amazon has an exposed cable run along the top tube, and I have inline adjusters, but no secondary levers, so quite a lot of ends. Perhaps I was not sufficiently meticulous in their preparation. I've just managed to crush an outer under a lamp bracket, so maybe this is the opportunity to try again with a new set.

 

[Wobblers]

Planet X are supposedly bringing out a "do anything" commuter titanium framed bike next year: this is what they posted on bikeradar:

re - titanium
on the titanium front weve been pretty slow off the mark this year and our inventory reflects our lack of planning
the good news is were pretty much sorted things - weve three frames coming , all made by van nicholas , off the top of me head -

pro road ti - slightly more traditional geometry but much stiffer , straight seatstays not curved , classic ti road

sportive - hour glass stays , short drop brakes not long drop , with mudguard eyelets , only for 25mm clearance - basically a little bit racier than our current sportive

new model - weirdo commuter / all rounder / do it all / utilitarian / cyclo cross - trying to push the envelope a bit on this -
- full rack mounts / mudguards
- alfine compatable
- disc only
- 45mm tyre clearance

All frames are coming early 2011

Planet X will be getting their frames for Van Nicholas - this spec sounds quite similar to the Amazon; I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up very similar indeed.
If this were built up with an alfine 11 hub, it would tick all the boxes for me. Assuming it actually materialises, along with the alfine 11 hub and an 11 speed version of the Versa STI's.

I probably shouldn't really be planning n+1 on rumoured vapourware, should I??

 

[PpPete]

I probably shouldn't really be planning n+1 on rumoured vapourware, should I??

Why ever not? That's what winter & snow is there for - innit?

 

[HJ]

Planet X are supposedly bringing out a "do anything" commuter titanium framed bike next year: this is what they posted on bikeradar:

re - titanium
on the titanium front weve been pretty slow off the mark this year and our inventory reflects our lack of planning
the good news is were pretty much sorted things - weve three frames coming , all made by van nicholas , off the top of me head -

pro road ti - slightly more traditional geometry but much stiffer , straight seatstays not curved , classic ti road

sportive - hour glass stays , short drop brakes not long drop , with mudguard eyelets , only for 25mm clearance - basically a little bit racier than our current sportive

new model - weirdo commuter / all rounder / do it all / utilitarian / cyclo cross - trying to push the envelope a bit on this -
- full rack mounts / mudguards
- alfine compatable
- disc only
- 45mm tyre clearance

All frames are coming early 2011

Planet X will be getting their frames for Van Nicholas - this spec sounds quite similar to the Amazon; I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up very similar indeed.
If this were built up with an alfine 11 hub, it would tick all the boxes for me. Assuming it actually materialises, along with the alfine 11 hub and an 11 speed version of the Versa STI's.

I probably shouldn't really be planning n+1 on rumoured vapourware, should I??

Humm, I wonder if the wife would notice if I got one of those

 

[MacB]

well I've decided to go ahead with the custom frame from Burls, too many little niggles with the Amazon and they are the same price. Am going with the chainstay mount for the disc caliper, Papazita has been a great help in detailing his Amazon for me to allow me to decide. Even getting off his sick bed to take some piccies for me, I'll ignore the fact that he didn't clean the bike first

Justin is doing the prelim drawings now and I'm still musing over chain tension, sliders are out as I'm firm on the chainstay mount option. So it's down to a chain tensioner or an EBB and, at the moment, the chain tensioner is winning, vertical dropouts are a must. No doubt I'll change my mind several times before the final design is committed to. But my searches have been turning up more OTP offerings:-

http://moots.com/our-bike/cross/psychlo-x/overview/

http://www.lynskeyperformance.com/a/

http://www.salsacycles.com/

But the Volagi bikes are still well ahead on the weekend bike stakes, only thing letting them down are the 130mm dropouts but I suspect that availability of 130mm disc hubs will increase rapidly.

Anyone spots any other tour/cross/road disc brake bikes please post up links.

 

[P.H]

Go for it

The Burls bikes I've seen have been very nice, neat and good looking. The only criticism I have is the way the frame builder dents the chainstays for clearance. I've no doubt this is fine from an engineering point of view, it just looks so crude and there are far more elegant ways to achieve the same. I'd go for an EBB, no surprise, if you don't like it you can always set it in one spot and run a tensioner, I just like the options. There is something about the process of custom, especially if you get to have a lot of input. I'd always end up with a different bike to you, that's the point

https://www.cyclechat.net/

 

[MacB]

I have ordered this frameset today:-

http://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya/

and, though I have a spare rear derailler as backup, I've also ordered this:-

http://www.forwardcycle.com/

The Burls is still in design stage and the FC standard shell EBB will allow me to decide whether I go with sliders, oversize EBB shell or standard BB shell.

Expect to see an ad for a Pompetamine XL frame, forks, headset, seatclamp and the mudguards I've modified to fit it.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

I have ordered this frameset today

I'll take first dibs please, Mac. Available say April-ish?

 

[MacB]

I'll take first dibs please, Mac. Available say April-ish?

As it's you, and if you're serious, you can have the frame and stuff as soon as the Vaya is up and running....payment can wait until you're ready