Diving in Fitba

[Crackle]

I think VAR has the potential to change some of the games habits. But as we've already seen, the new pressure will be on the refs to go to VAR, which probably needs a yellow the same as indicating someone should get a card for a tackle.

 

[smutchin]

I guess the diving (cheating) has always gone on too but my memory of it becoming an art form is of Jurgen Klinsman's balletic swoops to the turf.

Gosh, I’d forgotten about Klinsmann but yes, he could even teach Neymar a thing or two about diving. David Ginola is another one who would never have passed the audition to become a Weeble.*

This got me thinking: are the best players also the worst cheats? Ronaldo, Neymar, Suarez... even the saintly tax dodger Messi. And I hate to say it but even Mo Salah too. And it’s not just diving - Ramos is still possibly the best defender in the world** but he’s also a cynical thug.

Or is it just that we notice their cheating more because they’re more prominent?

And is there really more diving now than there used to be or do we just notice it more because there’s so much more footy on telly?


*cultural reference for the teenagers there.

**definitely top 5 at least.

 

[smutchin]

[QUOTE 5295511, member: 9609"]I don't normally watch football but found it a bit odd in this world cup that in some cases, a few minutes after the game had restarted after a goal the commentator would say the goal is to stand (so does that mean it could be rescinded?)[/QUOTE]

I thought the rule was that VAR couldn’t be invoked after play has restarted.

 

[rich p]

Gosh, I’d forgotten about Klinsmann but yes, he could even teach Neymar a thing or two about diving. David Ginola is another one who would never have passed the audition to become a Weeble.*

This got me thinking: are the best players also the worst cheats? Ronaldo, Neymar, Suarez... even the saintly tax dodger Messi. And I hate to say it but even Mo Salah too. And it’s not just diving - Ramos is still possibly the best defender in the world** but he’s also a cynical thug.

Or is it just that we notice their cheating more because they’re more prominent?

And is there really more diving now than there used to be or do we just notice it more because there’s so much more footy on telly?


*cultural reference for the teenagers there.

**definitely top 5 at least.

Call that a dive...

 

[Vapin' Joe]

i'd give any of em 10 minutes max on a rugby pitch before they wanted out

Typical rubbish from someone who has never played the game seriously. There is cheating in football, but no more than there is in any sport. Football is an extremely tough game and to survive at professional level you need to be able to take a high amount of pain. No player gets through a match without taking hard blows to some very painful bones and joints, ankles, knees and shins in the main. Cyclists may look like they are soldiering on with life threatening injuries, but as in the picture of the Moviestar rider above they are often no more than skin loss - uncomfortable enough, but not as agonisingly painful as a set of studs in the shinbone when you are running at your maximum.

All professional sportsmen and women have equal qualities of toughness, both physical and mental no matter what their sport, that's why they are where they are. The most talented performers at any discipline quite often never make the grade because they can't take the physical and mental pain that goes with it.

It is possible to enjoy cycling without developing a massive inferiority complex which leads you to constantly criticise other sports for a perceived lack of some quality which you mistakenly believe is exclusive to the thing you enjoy doing. Unfortunately some cyclists do take this attitude, mainly driven by jealousy over the popularity and coverage football gets.

 

[smutchin]

mainly driven by jealousy over the popularity and coverage football gets.

You have to call it "wendyball" for full effect.

And anyone who thinks cyclists never dive obviously didn't see Phil Hindes in the team pursuit at the 2012 Olympics.

 

[Dayvo]

This got me thinking: are the best players also the worst cheats? Ronaldo, Neymar, Suarez... even the saintly tax dodger Messi.

TBH I feel it's unfair to call Messi a diver (or put him in the same category as Ronaldo and Neymar). There are plenty of videos available on youtube of Messi being heavily tackled/fouled but he stays on his feet almost all the time and, IMO, opts not to dive/go down.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPwZBzL_yko

 

[smutchin]

TBH I feel it's unfair to call Messi a diver (or put him in the same category as Ronaldo and Neymar). There are plenty of videos available on youtube of Messi being heavily tackled/fouled but he stays on his feet almost all the time and, IMO, opts not to dive/go down.

There are videos of him diving as well... Notably, he got a yellow card for diving in the 2016 Copa America final.

And he is also a tax dodger.

Neymar has the reputation mainly because of his ludicrous tendency to be so theatrical about it. As Pat Nevin said on the radio the other night, when a player rolls over that many times, it's a sure sign that he's not really injured. No one takes him seriously.

The thing is, reputations lead to confirmation bias. Messi has the reputation for always staying on his feet, so people tend to forget the times he cynically throws himself to the ground.

You could probably find plenty of videos of Neymar staying on his feet under a heavy challenge as well. You don't score as many goals as he does if you're lying on the ground.

 

[smutchin]

This is totes hilar:

View: https://youtu.be/xSLxa3MYMcw

 

[SteCenturion]

For the sake of balance I will also say I deplore the way these habits are also creeping into professional Rugby Union.

& Rugby League too, seems often to be either a) a delaying tactic to 1) take a breather or 2) get the defensive line set or b) to try & con the ref into giving an opponent 10 in the bin or a red.

It's just not cricket !

 

[Dayvo]

There are videos of him diving as well... Notably, he got a yellow card for diving in the 2016 Copa America final.

And he is also a tax dodger.

The tax evasion bit doesn't bother me. Throughout all strata of society everywhere and since tax was introduced, people have cheated.

The yellow card in 2016 looked more like he lost his balance, than actually dived.

But I have no defence with regard to the diving evidence in the video clip.

2-1 to me, then.

 

[smutchin]

The yellow card in 2016 looked more like he lost his balance, than actually dived.

I dunno. It's a difficult one to prove either way.

But even if it was a dive, he's still an awesome player and a joy to watch. And that is why diving doesn't spoil football for me - the positives outweigh the negatives.

 

[Lozz360]

And is there really more diving now than there used to be or do we just notice it more because there’s so much more footy on telly?

I think diving has always been around. What has changed has been the quality of TV replays and different camera angles that prove a player has gone down with no contact from his opponent. It wasn’t that long ago we would have to say it looked like a dive.

 

[Lozz360]

Regarding the question of whether diving is a new thing, I believe this happened 20 years ago to the day. How on earth did he get away with it?

View: https://youtu.be/WzHVpBINPkQ

 

[Levo-Lon]

I thought this was about scuba diving!!
Hence my late viewing.

It kills the game, cheating is only ok in football it seems