Do you feel that cycling is getting more dangerous

[grldtnr]

I wish I'd had a go-pro when this bloke in a Morris Minor pulled out in front of me in the mid-1960's when I was about 16..
As a matter of interest do forum members think him or me was to blame?

With the aid of photoshop and a goog streetview of the actual scene, here's a dramatic reconstruction of the incident-
It happened almost under the Humberstone Road (Leicester) railway bridge on a dull drizzly day, I was on my bike at 'X' when he emerged slowly from a garage forecourt along the red arrow and stopped to wait for a gap in the traffic.
I hit my brakes (not very effective in the rain) and began turning left down the yellow arrow to avoid him, but failed by a few inches and shaved off his rearlight-
View attachment 717218


And to add to my embarrasment, my bike was JAMMED UPRIGHT in the narrow gap between his bodywork and bumper ! (below, this is a stock net image).
I'd gone over the handlebars and was sitting dazed in the road (no injuries) and the driver had to tug the bike out of the gap.
He was a decent chap, he suggested it was my fault without accusing me directly, and a young bloke came from the garage as a "witness" and said I wasn't looking where I was going, which was baloney, but I was too dazed to speak.
I gave the driver my name and address (no police were involved) and that evening he called round and my dad paid him for the damage to his rearlight with no hard feelings on either side.
(Incidentally my front wheel was mashed, and even the back wheel was buckled, but luckily there was a bike shop nearby so I'd carried the wreck there to have new wheels fitted).
BUT ever since then i've been wondering whether it really was my fault?
How do you think Judge Judy would have ruled?

View attachment 717219

I am inclined to think 6 of one, half dozen the other , but then the motorist should not have stopped in the middle of the road.
Given the braking ability of bikes then ,in moist weather you had little chance to stop ,and tried to avoid the car , I would absolve you .....but I am a cyclist, do that's not strictly fair and unbiased, in mitigation it is fifgicult yo have a good veiw of the road

 

[Bristolian]

I am well aware of the need to ride defensively, and being assertive, if those 2 can be put together, but the truth is should we have too.
Go to many European countries, and the odds are stacked in your favour for riding cycles on the road.

It comes down to the plain fact cycling on the road in Britain is not respected, it's poor driving standards,and a lack of proper training.

The fact you haven't received abuse surprises me,

You're absolutely right. I sometimes cycle in the Netherlands (my sister lives there and a bicycle is her way of getting around) and it is like chalk and cheese compared to here but here is where I live and do most of my riding so knowing that other countries have different experiences is immaterial to my daily riding experience.

The attitude of most motorised road users towards each other (not just cyclists) is disgraceful. As an advanced car driver and motorcyclist I spend as much time adjusting my driving to make up for the awful state of other drivers standards as I do making progress myself. We have a car learner system that is seriously flawed; the motorcycle route takes longer and is far better structured leading, I believe, to better road users. How many of us get close passed by a motorbike?

 

[classic33]

This is what happened to me on one ride from Todmorden to Littleborough and back last week...!

I think the roadworks along almost the length of Burney Road, on the far side of Hebden Bridge from you, are impacting driving standards.

There's drivers not stopping for a red light that are going to get someone else hurt. The current roadworks, gas main replacement, have another year before being finished.

 

[Ian H]

That's my experience too. Positioned out of the gutter gets you seen and removes any temptation to "just squeeze through".

Yup. I haven't found any increase in danger or aggressiveness. Rather the reverse. Perhaps it's my behaviour that has improved - who knows.

 

[classic33]

As above, ride assertively and not in the gutter. Particularly at traffic islands where someone will try and push through if you’re in the gutter. Be assertive but don’t get into shouting / slanging matches. No good comes of the latter exchanges. If you use cameras report close passes, but don’t let it ruin your day. Let it ruin their day.

It certainly changed since the 70s and 80s when I would ride the A roads regularly but that’s simply that the planners have engineered them in every upgrade since to prioritise the motor vehicle. Plus as Colin says the number of motorised vehicles continues to climb year on year with significantly more trips being made by car in the UK than in history. Plus the school run is now a thing that it wasn’t when most of us went to school (on foot, bike or bus).

In terms of the last decade I would not say it’s any more dangerous round here. I mostly ride quiet lanes or B roads. But even in towns most drivers realise they need to wait till it’s safe to overtake. The sooner we see 20 mph on built up roads the better in terms of calming down those who think they can ignore what they were taught about how to behave around vulnerable users on the road. The vast majority are fine, if impatient and distracted.

The most dangerous sections of road locally are the three junctions at either end of the road where the test centre is located. Even the examiners have asked for better markings. Problem being, the worst time to be on that 50 yard stretch of road is before it opens and when it closes, to the public.
The examiners are a bigger danger than many learner drivers.

 

[Ridgeway]

We were back over in the Uk this summer. No traffic, respectful drivers and smooth roads.

Wait I think I was mixing that up with the other countries we visited😂

Re the OP’s question, I actually thought the road surface conditions were far more dangerous than the other road users. Cars and trucks cutting me up was one thing but having to wonder if the road still existed beneath you was another challenge 😐

 

[grldtnr]

You're absolutely right. I sometimes cycle in the Netherlands (my sister lives there and a bicycle is her way of getting around) and it is like chalk and cheese compared to here but here is where I live and do most of my riding so knowing that other countries have different experiences is immaterial to my daily riding experience.

The attitude of most motorised road users towards each other (not just cyclists) is disgraceful. As an advanced car driver and motorcyclist I spend as much time adjusting my driving to make up for the awful state of other drivers standards as I do making progress myself. We have a car learner system that is seriously flawed; the motorcycle route takes longer and is far better structured leading, I believe, to better road users. How many of us get close passed by a motorbike?

Bristol's
I think that is a fair point to make about motorcycling, it's perceived thinking that motorcyclists are 'Dangerous' and take uneccasary risks , yes some do, same as any other person,doing whatever theu do.
Motorcyclist know full well the dangers of getting it wrong, usually never ends well,so I think as a group, are far more aware of the risks, and act accordingly, safety is very much focused on by the training schools, and the test itself .
I am in the process of getting my motorbike licence, after 40 yrs driving,50 yrs cycling,what I have learned from the motorcycle instruction ,had been enlightening,
You never stop learning.
I whole heartedly accept the rigourous motorbike training, Car & commercial instruction should take the same form, with added section on cyclist & pedestrians. The current Car regime isn't good enough.
I would like to see physical cycling added into the test, but not every one can ride a cycle, or eill .....because its petcieve dangerous.
Chicken & egg !

 

[matticus]

I sometimes think more people seem to give me more space when overtaking, which is good.

Other than that, I feel its much like its always been and we just need to pick our battles carefully.

DItto. You get a good week, you get a bad week ...
[regular rider for about 30 years]

(traffic levels have crept up during my lifetime, but that means average speeds have gone down too!)

 

[presta]

This all seems to make sense, but the statistics just don't show it to be the case.

The numbers killed on UK roads and the numbers seriously injured have both fallen almost every year since 1970 according to official figures. There was a slight blip in 2021, almost certainly due to COVID causing the 2020 figures to be lower than they would otherwise have been.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_Road_Casualties_Great_Britain

Since 1990, Killed, seriously injured and slightly injured have all fallen to well under half what they were. And that is with way more cars on the roads, and significantly more miles driven overall. (1993 256 Billion vehicle miles, 2022 323 Billion vehicle miles - https://roadtraffic.dft.gov.uk/summary)

The reasons for this undoubtedly involve a number of different factors, but it doesn't really matter much what the reasons are, the fact is that our roads are safer now than they have ever been.

Smeed's Law: As traffic density increases, accident rates go down.

 

[willhub]

I cycle in Manchester, I don't do much cycling anymore and only really get my cycling in on commutes, I do a 6 mile commute to work down the A62 then through the Northern Quarter, and home I cycle do between 12 and 17 mile route, usually down Whitworth street onto Oxford Rd towards Withington where I then cross over past Southern Cemetery and swing a left to Barlow Moor Road and then into Chorlton where it is full of road works currently due to these new cycle lane that for some reason I don't feel are actually safer, I then proceed down upper chorlton road through MossSide and back up Oxford road onto Portlan Street through the city center through the northern Quarter then back up the A62 to Oldham.

There are a lot of close pass bys, drivers really need to pass you no matter what the consequence, if I was doing 100mph they'd still have to pass despite a 20mph speed limit. I find a lot of hazard from other cyclists, usually of those food delivery services, or getting stuck behind as they cut in front of me at a red light, go through then as I set off I get stuck behind them. Pedestrians seem more of a hazard now too, not sure what's happened but they seem to gravitate towards cyclists coming up the road as if they're going to stand in the road right in front of me.

I'm constantly on edge now expecting the unexpected all of the time.

 

[Chief Broom]

I wonder if the op's question should be - 'is society getting more selfish/uncaring/tribal/vicious' I would say it is. I try to stay off main roads as much as possible but considering how little time i spend on them the number of occasions ive experienced being carved up, not seen, or even verbally abused is very high.

 

[Happy_Days]

We have a car learner system that is seriously flawed; the motorcycle route takes longer and is far better structured leading, I believe, to better road users. How many of us get close passed by a motorbike?

I am in the process of getting my motorbike licence, after 40 yrs driving,50 yrs cycling,what I have learned from the motorcycle instruction ,had been enlightening, You never stop learning. I whole heartedly accept the rigourous motorbike training, Car & commercial instruction should take the same form, with added section on cyclist & pedestrians. The current Car regime isn't good enough.

Indeed. It would be a huge improvement if tomorrow’s route for obtaining a car license became like today’s motorcycle license route.

For example, today's learner driver training hardly covers overtaking, leaving newly licensed drivers to make it up as they go along. It’s no wonder we have so many close passes.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Smeed's Law: As traffic density increases, accident rates go down.

Doesn't Smeed's law say that the rate of accidents per vehicle decreases as the number of vehicles goes up, but increases overall because there are more vehicles? Something like that.

 

[grldtnr]

Doesn't Smeed's law say that the rate of accidents per vehicle decreases as the number of vehicles goes up, but increases overall because there are more vehicles? Something like that.

It's the way off things, if it doesn't, then this thread would not be ,so long or proactive to incidents of poor driving.

 

[night cycler]

Its not getting more dangerous. Its the same as it ever was and thats just risky. You are sharing a road with fast moving metal boxes, sometimes driven by people you would not trust to water your pot plants when you are on holiday. You have nothing to protect you but your wits. Pedestrians have the common sense to have a pavement to walk on.

If you really believe it is getting more 'dangerous'. Why on earth would you carry on doing it?

I carry on doing it, but much less on the road. Paths if wide enough, and maybe cycle lanes.