Does the Home Office know what an eBike/EAPC actually is?

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classic33

Leg End Member
I saw this on YT yesterday which confused me as I thought that if an electric bike had a full throttle it was automatically a motorbike. Apparently my understanding of the EAPC regulations were wrong, or have I missed something subtle?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lonnBqEMbA&t=386s

Basically the same as Wisper bikes. Their bikes are put through the MVSA, which sees them reclassified as light mopeds.

https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/reviews/folding-e-bike/pedibal-navigata-with-throttle-5845
 

classic33

Leg End Member
The MVSA is only for individual bikes which don't have type approval.

The ones being talked about in the video do have type approval.
You could put your own bike through the same test, but you've to find a testing station that can deal with bicycles. They're few and far between.

Which is exactly what Wisper bikes do, which is put their bikes through on an individual basis. Even Pedibal say this much.

https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/n...s-can-legally-be-ridden-without-a-licence-and
"That £200 means Pedibal will organise a type approval certificate that legalises the bike for yo. This involves taking it to a DVSA test centre which requires booking in advance - hence the quoted 2-5 week lead time for this service."
 
The throttle legislation is an unworkable mess and should never have been implemented at all as its ridiculous to prevent use of throttles when its the default power control for most ebikes in the world and provides maximum safety and control.

However if the ebike throttle is twist and go up to only 6km/h it is legal with regard EU regulations.

If the throttle only operates only when pedalling its legal up to 15.5mph assistance speed with regard EU regulations.

If the ebike was purchased before 2017 its still legal to use today twist and go throttle up to 15.5mph

As above posts if the bike is individually DVSA tested it is legal to have twist and go throttle up to 15.5mph.

If its an ebike kit according to the Department for transport its is legal according to this but this is more a grey area but the clarification did come from the Department for Transport.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/dft-pedal-cycles-converted-twist-go-exempt-type-approval/


What an utter waste of resources for the police to be confiscating any ebike with a throttle that operates at 15.5mph or below. Laws should be in the interest of consumers and safety not just some random nonsense someone makes up. There is no evidence to support any safety implication of having a working throttle on a ebike. It only goes to 15.5mph a fraction of the maximum speed of a bicycle unassisted on flats or downhill.

We really should be completely ignoring this EU nonsense and just allowing working throttles up to 15.5mph although personally I think it should be 20mph in line with our urban speed limit on many roads.

You wonder how the police are meant to remember all this nonsense that politicians and regulators have allowed. A simple no throttle assistance above 17mph (10% tolerance) is really the only test they should be doing and just making sure a working drivetrain with pedals is fitted.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
The throttle legislation is an unworkable mess and should never have been implemented at all as its ridiculous to prevent use of throttles when its the default power control for most ebikes in the world and provides maximum safety and control.

However if the ebike throttle is twist and go up to only 6km/h it is legal with regard EU regulations.

If the throttle only operates only when pedalling its legal up to 15.5mph assistance speed with regard EU regulations.

If the ebike was purchased before 2017 its still legal to use today twist and go throttle up to 15.5mph

As above posts if the bike is individually DVSA tested it is legal to have twist and go throttle up to 15.5mph.

If its an ebike kit according to the Department for transport its is legal according to this but this is more a grey area but the clarification did come from the Department for Transport.

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/dft-pedal-cycles-converted-twist-go-exempt-type-approval/


What an utter waste of resources for the police to be confiscating any ebike with a throttle that operates at 15.5mph or below. Laws should be in the interest of consumers and safety not just some random nonsense someone makes up. There is no evidence to support any safety implication of having a working throttle on a ebike. It only goes to 15.5mph a fraction of the maximum speed of a bicycle unassisted on flats or downhill.

We really should be completely ignoring this EU nonsense and just allowing working throttles up to 15.5mph although personally I think it should be 20mph in line with our urban speed limit on many roads.

You wonder how the police are meant to remember all this nonsense that politicians and regulators have allowed. A simple no throttle assistance above 17mph (10% tolerance) is really the only test they should be doing and just making sure a working drivetrain with pedals is fitted.
The new rules/regulations were brought in Europe wide, to standardise the rules. This meant that if taking your cycle from one country to another, you're cycle, if legal in one country would be legal in the adjoining countries.

Where the UK differed from the rest of Europe is that they didn't accept the throttle only option, or the higher speed limit under the regulations.

Police in Leeds have been pulling them for not pedaling whilst the bike is moving. Birmingham police have been checking the throttle for cut-off speed. Above walk assist speed they've been removing them from their riders.
 

Electric_Andy

Heavy Metal Fan
Location
Plymouth
Too much time has passed now for people to use the precise and correct terms. Other examples include using the term "moped" when you actually mean scooter. I still have to explain to my partner that not all mopeds are scooters, and not all scooters are mopeds
 

Electric_Andy

Heavy Metal Fan
Location
Plymouth
Also, if regulatory bodies refer to them (properly) as electric motorcycles, most people would assume they were talking about traditional motorcycle design i.e. not mountain bikes that will do 50mph
 

Drago

Legendary Member
Also, if regulatory bodies refer to them (properly) as electric motorcycles, most people would assume they were talking about traditional motorcycle design i.e. not mountain bikes that will do 50mph

If they'd set the correct narrative early on that wouldn't be a problem.
 
The new rules/regulations were brought in Europe wide, to standardise the rules. This meant that if taking your cycle from one country to another, you're cycle, if legal in one country would be legal in the adjoining countries.

Where the UK differed from the rest of Europe is that they didn't accept the throttle only option, or the higher speed limit under the regulations.

Police in Leeds have been pulling them for not pedaling whilst the bike is moving. Birmingham police have been checking the throttle for cut-off speed. Above walk assist speed they've been removing them from their riders.

Obviously before we adopted the EU ebike legislation the previous UK legislation allowed twist and go throttles that is the grandfather/legacy rights of why people who bought their ebike before 2017 can still legally ride it today despite its twist and go throttle. When people complained about the lack of throttle options for disabled, elderly etc the UK came up with this new DVSA individually tested ebikes legislation to allow them to still have twist and go throttles hence the Pedibal/Woosh etc ebikes that are individually tested which pretty much is a return to the previous pre-EU ebike certification. However I've occasionally read on sites that its clear the Police don't actually understand the legislation fully and you can hardly blame them its a complete mess. However to end consumers this is very worrying when they are riding a completely legal ebike that is allowed a twist and go throttle and the Police may effectively steal your legal ebike.

As I said before the UK should do its own ebike certification with true wattage figures, complete allowance of throttle control up to the assistance speed and assistance speed of up to 20mph as per our urban road speed limit. If we are to incorporate EU ebike certification within it we will need to set a maximum wattage of about 1000W which is the highest sustained wattage figure for many so called 250W EU certified ebikes. For example many e-mountain bikes that deliver 100Nm or more torque. We need to get away from the fake and misleading EU certification that was written as a trade barrier with commercial bias. Really we need to move away from stop/start assistance of cadence sensors which can be dangerous especially those simple models that give full power when you rotate the crank. If you are elderly or disabled you need power immediately when you set off not delayed especially on hills. Surely the ability to simply control power as much or as little as you need for the circumstances is the ultimate power control system for an ebike and the most used system around the world for ebikes.
 
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