Dog control on off road cycleways

[Fab Foodie]

Small, unpredictable and unaware, I think it's a valid comparison in this instance.

The OP has already accepted that dogs are not really expected to be kept on a lead and he is happy to abide by this 'unwritten rule'. IMO the only dogs that should be kept on a lead in an environment like the path in question (and I know it quite well, was on there last Sunday morning while most of the world was still in bed) are dogs that are likely to attack other dogs or path users. well behaved but lively dogs are welcome to stretch their legs in my book.

Once again, I have to agree ... I'm getting a sense of deja-vu here....

It's irellevent who's at fault when you're lying on the deck with a bloody nose and a dead dog or even worse a child. It's too late then.
As the pilot of a fast moving machine you have a duty of care to others on the path as you're likely to cause them a lot of damage. 15mph is too fast for shared use paths especially in the vicinity of other users.

 

[Schneil]

It's a busy, shared use, path. Get a life and watch where you are going . People can be as unpredictable as animals and even when you think they have seen you coming they will step out unexpectedly. You are effectively riding on a pavement, while they are definitely NOT walking on a road, so the onus is on you to ride appropriately. Riding at 5-10mph is too fast to pass a group of people. Less than 5mph is probably more suitable. An emergency stop at less than 5mph is just a stop, without the drama!

I think you need to learn a lesson from this rather than getting on your high horse and asking about laws and guidance, common sense is all that is needed.

By the way, I am not absolving all dog owners, just as in all walks of life, it is a group that contains some right chumps!

I want to make it clear that I wasn't charging down the path without a care in the world. Myself and the cyclist in front had seen the group in front of us and had started slowing. The problem is at the last second the dog owner had let her dog come onto our side. We had no warning that the dog was there. If I was going too fast I wouldn't have been able to stop. As you learn from experience I'll remember for next time the possibility that even though I can't see a dog, one may wander out. So that's the common sense lesson learned.

However what bugged me was the dog owners attitude. I'm a reasonable chap, but she felt it would have been totally my fault if I'd hit the dog and it shouldn't have been on a lead.

I've done a bit of digging round and the highway code says:
"56
Dogs
Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the footway, footpath, road or path shared with cyclists or horse riders."

Gov.uk
"
It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control:
in a public place

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it injures someone"

Also Sustrans
"Keep your dog under control;"

People have been held liable for accidents caused with dogs being off leads:
http://www.myfirststep.co.uk/site/library/pi/cycleist_wins_compensation_form_dog_owner.html

Anyway I feel I've answered my original question now. The dog should have been on a lead if it wasn't under control (which it wasn't). However arguing who's fault or not, is no good when you've got life changing injuries. If you're on a bike and you hit someone/thing, it'll hurt. Just ride defensively and carefully. I'll chalk this one down to experience and watch out for chumps.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Anyway I feel I've answered my original question now. The dog should have been on a lead if it wasn't under control (which it wasn't). However arguing who's fault or not, is no good when you've got life changing injuries. If you're on a bike and you hit someone/thing, it'll hurt. Just ride defensively and carefully. I'll chalk this one down to experience and watch out for chumps.

Good Man, well said. In a perfect world we'd all sing in tune ....
Much of the art of staying alive and happy on a bicycle is to anticipate the unexpected ... and never stop learning :-)

 

[Schneil]

Also in my digging around I found an amended version of the dogs on leads mural on the Fallowfield loop.
http://naturallycyclingmanchester.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/floop-bridge-grafitti-1.jpg


(hope that doesn't put the cat amongst the pigeons)

 

[Matthew_T]

Well that's pretty helpful .... speaking as an outsider Matthew, what do you think of humanity?

Awful, the lot of them. Everyone would learn some valuable lessons if they had a cherished family pet stabbed infront of them and then the head ripped off. Then people might have a better grasp on reality.

*I am joking of course. Everyone is entitled to use the shared path. And pretty much every dog owner grabs their dog when I am approaching. They are always met with a "thank you".

 

[Fab Foodie]

Awful, the lot of them. Everyone would learn some valuable lessons if they had a cherished family pet stabbed infront of them and then the head ripped off. Then people might have a better grasp on reality.

If people reading this cannot understand that I am joking, then there is no hope for them.

Joking's fine, but the trick with jokes is that they should be funny....

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Awful, the lot of them. Everyone would learn some valuable lessons if they had a cherished family pet stabbed infront of them and then the head ripped off. Then people might have a better grasp on reality.

Matthew the more I read your drivel the more I believe that you seriously need help, oh btw I have deliberately deleted your white on white text, does your mummy know you play on the computer when you should be asleep?

Alan...

 

[lesley_x]

I can't believe people ride on shared paths at 20mph or more.

Would you be happy if a car drove up a shared path at 20mph? Would the driver be at fault if an accident happened?

If the paths near you guys hurtling down at 20mph (I don't care how good your reactions are) are anything like the ones near me you cannot predict when a ped, child or dog will emerge. I've even had people emerge from bushes into my path. You are in charge of a piece of metal and rubber which is quite spiky in places moving at 20mph and in my opinion you would be 'out of control in a public place' much like a dog off the lead. You are just as likely to cause an accident.

And to be honest if you hit my dog at speeds like that, I would not be happy and I would certainly not feel I was responsible! I've been chased by dogs, it's just what dogs do. Adjust your riding accordingly.

 

[I like Skol]

I've done a bit of digging round and the highway code says:
..........

Keep digging, isn't there also a recommendation to travel at a maximum speed of 12mph on a shared use cycle path? Of course acknowledging that little gem would be inconvenient and rather weaken your case in the 'discussion' with the dogs owner. But never mind, you just keep on arguing with random pedestrians and make cyclists look like selfish, anti-social *rseholes.

 

[fossyant]

If you want to do any sort of speed on a bike, there are perfectly good roads out there. Shared use paths are exactly that, and as they are away from traffic, expect uncontrolled dogs, children, old people, and wildlife.

I rarely use shared paths, if I do I slow right down near people. I use the TPT in the Winter, there are sections where I will be bombing it, but I've got a clear line of view. Any folk/animals, I come to a near stop.

 

[Matthew_T]

Matthew the more I read your drivel the more I believe that you seriously need help, oh btw I have deliberately deleted your white on white text, does your mummy know you play on the computer when you should be asleep?

Alan...

Excuse me?

 

[Sara_H]

I want to make it clear that I wasn't charging down the path without a care in the world. Myself and the cyclist in front had seen the group in front of us and had started slowing. The problem is at the last second the dog owner had let her dog come onto our side. We had no warning that the dog was there. If I was going too fast I wouldn't have been able to stop. As you learn from experience I'll remember for next time the possibility that even though I can't see a dog, one may wander out. So that's the common sense lesson learned.

However what bugged me was the dog owners attitude. I'm a reasonable chap, but she felt it would have been totally my fault if I'd hit the dog and it shouldn't have been on a lead.

I've done a bit of digging round and the highway code says:
"56
Dogs
Do not let a dog out on the road on its own. Keep it on a short lead when walking on the footway, footpath, road or path shared with cyclists or horse riders."

Gov.uk
"
It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control:
in a public place

Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it injures someone"

Also Sustrans
"Keep your dog under control;"

People have been held liable for accidents caused with dogs being off leads:
http://www.myfirststep.co.uk/site/library/pi/cycleist_wins_compensation_form_dog_owner.html

Anyway I feel I've answered my original question now. The dog should have been on a lead if it wasn't under control (which it wasn't). However arguing who's fault or not, is no good when you've got life changing injuries. If you're on a bike and you hit someone/thing, it'll hurt. Just ride defensively and carefully. I'll chalk this one down to experience and watch out for chumps.

You've clearly made your mind up so why are bothering to ask for opinions? There's an element of shared responsibility here - you were going too fast, dog wasn't under proper control. Suck it up.

 

[Profpointy]

You've clearly made your mind up so why are bothering to ask for opinions? There's an element of shared responsibility here - you were going too fast, dog wasn't under proper control. Suck it up.

Ah, but you're forgettting the hirearchy of might. Cars most important - everyone ele gets out the way, cyclist in between, and dogs and their owners scum at the bottom - they don't even pay road tax after all, daily mail blah blah

And to the OP - a dog "dangerously out of control" does not mean wandering around a FOOTPATH - it means a viscous dog biting people .

 

[snorri]

That's not clever or not funny Matthew_T, get it deleted before you get banned from here.

 

[lesley_x]

That's not clever or not funny Matthew_T, get it deleted before you get banned from here.

Agreed.