Dozy bleedin' pedestrians...

[jonesy]

That's interesting. So on this 'Planet Earth' you refer to, there were no roads of any description before there were wheeled vehicles...?

 

[swee'pea99]

Depends what you call 'a road' I suppose. Did you have a point?

 

[Ronaldo]

... and why it is assumed that cars should have priority. There is absolutely no reason why the law couldn't say that cars have exactly the same priority as pedestrians ...

There is no priority of road user class. Everybody has equal use of the roads apart from motorways.

Right of way refers to the road not the traveller. Those travelling along the right of way have priority over those who are crossing it.

 

[Maz]

I think the word road comes from rode, as such carriageways were first ridden on by people on horseback.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[BentMikey]

Is it? I think we just need to get over the fact that pedestrians can be annoying (and I do acknowledge that they can be). It's only because we're used to the domination of our public space by cars that we think people should go about their business in a permanent state of vigilance, and defer to people who threaten their lives with anti-social forms of transport. Why shouldn't people wander about aimlessly, eating ice creams, chatting, and thinking about sex, Home and Away and whats-for-dinner? Pedestrians deserve top spot in the hierarchy, and we should aim to be their friends and allies.

Well said!!! +1

 

[hackbike 6]

Dont agree.Then again Im asking too much anyway.Why should I expect people to drive a car with due care and consideration when they can't even cross the road in an orderly manner.No I have never owned a car and long may it continue.

 

[jonesy]

[quote name='swee'pea99']Depends what you call 'a road' I suppose. Did you have a point?[/QUOTE]

You made the rather dubious claim that "we have created roads for wheeled vehicles travel on...", which does not apply to all roads even now and certainly doesn't in the historical context. The fundamental point that you missed, as originally made by theclaud, is that roads are part of public space and there need be no automatic presumption that their primary function is the conveyance of wheeled vehicles. There are certainly lots of roads where vehicular transport is the primary purpose, but that isn't true of residential streets for example. And on those sort of roads there is no reason why drivers couldn't be expected to drive at walking pace with no more or less priority than pedestrians. It is only your unquestioned presumption that cars always have to be a fast mode that makes you assume that pedestrians should always have keep out of their way.

You also said "There is plenty of provision for us when we want to travel on foot - and it is up to us to use it sensibly.". Actually pedestrian provision is pretty awful in a lot of places, leading to community severance and pedestrian causalities, which fall disproportionately on the least well off who usually live in places most heavily affected by other people's traffic. Note that the UK has one of the worst child pedestrian casualty rates. It is all very well to talk pompously about using the road 'sensibly', but if you create an intrinsically hazardous environment it is wholly unreasonable to shift the burden of responsibility onto the most vulnerable, especially children.

 

[swee'pea99]

Dubious claims? Pish and also tush. I just said roads are for wheeled vehicles, which they patently are (even - yes - residential streets) and that pedestrians who go wandering about them oblivious are a danger to themselves and a bleedin' nuisance to everyone else.

If you think pedestrians should have free rein to wander free as the clouds, then fine - that's your opinion. Personally, I'm glad they don't, because if they did, I'd never get to work.

 

[BentMikey]

Sweetpea, from now on, every time you put foot to the road, I want you to think of this topic, and hopefully you'll realise your viewpoint is ignorant and intolerant. Roads are everywhere, and for the use of everyone. Only some of those users will be in vehicles.

 

[swee'pea99]

I very much doubt it, BM. I will keep my eyes open tho'...

 

[dondare]

When I was learning to drive my instructor told me to give way to pedestrians crossing the road. Until then I'd never thought about it but now it seems the right thing to do either driving or cycling.

 

[hackbike 6]

Hard to give way when they appear from nowhere and run right in front of you.

 

[theclaud]

Hard to give way when they appear from nowhere and run right in front of you.

Appear from nowhere? That'll be those magic pedestrians, then, not the ordinary kind that walk to places. And a very common place to find magic pedestrians is... you guessed it.... appearing from behind a parked car. So, is the problem really that pedestrians materialise from nowhere, or is it that everywhere they want to go has been turned become a hideous combination of car-park and car race-track, in which they are at an inherent disadvantage? I dislike it when cyclists start behaving like drivers - vehicular cycling is an entirely sensible strategy for surviving in traffic, but that's all it is. It needn't be a statement about the nature of bicycles, which (unlike cars) can happily co-exist with absolute pedestrian freedom if we stop getting so stroppy about having to slow down or deviate from our line in the road.

An excellent contribution to this thread from Jonesy on the evening shift!

 

[hackbike 6]

In my 2006 collision in Walthamstow three teenagers ran from the other side of the road and actually didn't see me and I didn't really notice them either until they were standing in front of me.It only went tits up when they realised I was there and stopped dead then I had nowhere to go.

Just goes to show I cannot always rely on Hi-Viz gear all of the time.

I had witnesses at the time although peds weren't injured and I was so it didn't particularly matter.

A lot of the problem is when peds panic and run around like headless chickens,makes it so much easier to hit them.

My 2006 collision was a bit of a strange incident though.

Additional.I believe they had bolted across the road and were trying to avoid the car that was behind me.

 

[Origamist]

So, is the problem really that pedestrians materialise from nowhere, or is it that everywhere they want to go has been turned become a hideous combination of car-park and car race-track, in which they are at an inherent disadvantage? I dislike it when cyclists start behaving like drivers - vehicular cycling is an entirely sensible strategy for surviving in traffic, but that's all it is. It needn't be a statement about the nature of bicycles, which (unlike cars) can happily co-exist with absolute pedestrian freedom if we stop getting so stroppy about having to slow down or deviate from our line in the road.

An interesting precis about the origins of autocentricity in the US:

http://pricetags.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/how-the-streets-were-made-safe-for-cars/