Dr Jeremy Groves is an idiot

[Dan B]

Why was this article by a cycling doctor, about bikes, and not medical issues published in the BMJ anyway. This article has nothing to do with medicine, science or anything that could be tried or tested on his own?

It's the Christmas edition, which according to BMJ tradition often features light-hearted holiday season articles

To be fair to Mr Groves, his study is very lighthearted, and it’s included in the Christmas edition of the BMJ where those fun-loving medics like to go a bit madcap and ker-azy. He does, for example, say that he considered turning his randomised trial into a blind study, “But in the interest of self preservation and other road users, decided against it.”

http://road.cc/content/news/28400-doctor-claims-carbon-offers-no-benefit-over-steel

http://www.bmj.com/content/341/bmj.c6801.full

 

[Flying_Monkey]

It's lighthearted, personal and not untrue. What's the problem?

 

[marzjennings]

He may have traveled at the same speed and taken the same time to get to work on both the old and new bike, but I bet he used a whole lot less energy riding the new lighter bike.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

He may have traveled at the same speed and taken the same time to get to work on both the old and new bike, but I bet he used a whole lot less energy riding the new lighter bike.

That's a lot less important than the fact that he enjoyed riding the old steel bike more, though.
Like FM says, it's a personal article written in a lighthearted spirit.

 

[downfader]

'Oo's 'e?

Documentary maker from Aus, he's dedicated his retirement to making short films about bikes and an Aussie bay. His stuffs on youtube, quite good actually but everytime I post it here people just go "meh.."

 

[Flying_Monkey]

He may have traveled at the same speed and taken the same time to get to work on both the old and new bike, but I bet he used a whole lot less energy riding the new lighter bike.

Then he'd be leaner, fitter and happier having ridden the old one. Sounds like win-win to me.

 

[John the Monkey]

Reminds me of what Mike Rubbo said about sit up and begs.

Mike Rubbo?

Meh.

 

[airbrake]

So, to summarise... a heavy steel 'gas-pipe' frame with heavy steel wheels is the fastest way to descend...

This explains why I could overtake modern bikes downhill on my 1978 Raleigh Europa. I had to develop an iron grip for the brakes though - I could squeeze just under 20 stone on the bathroom scales !

 

[longers]

I think the thread title is out of order. Sorry Pete.

It's not mentioned in the newspaper article that "what works for him might not work for everyone else".
I'm happy he's happy, but it doesn't mean others aren't because they're doing things differently.

 

[atbman]

Excatly how is he an idiot?

he hought his shiny new carbon bike was significantly faster than his old steel framed one. Looked at his time on the old one and found it wasn't so. Carried out experiment to find out the truth and found no real difference.

Seems like the action of a scientifically trained person, to me

 

[Hover Fly]

(from trroad.cc comments)Well I dont think this research applys to the population that I am interested in, currently I have a £1k bike made of aluminium but I want to buy a £3.5k carbon bike therefore the quality will be 3.5x better than the bike involved in this sample and therefore the results do not apply.

Oh boy! I wonder if he wants to buy a can of my special racing snake oil, cost 5 time the price of 3 in 1 so he'll go 5 times as fast.

 

[Goldie]

Oh boy! I wonder if he wants to buy a can of my special racing snake oil, cost 5 time the price of 3 in 1 so he'll go 5 times as fast.

He should definitely send me some of the piles of old twenty pound notes that he undoubtedly has lying around his house.

The thread title does seem off colour. Dr. Groves set out to find out whether riding his carbon bike resulted in faster commute times - it didn't. He wasn't trying to comment on the wisdom of manufacturing and selling carbon bikes in general. His specific conclusion is:

" A new lightweight bicycle may have many attractions, but if the bicycle is used to commute, a reduction in the weight of the cyclist rather than that of the bicycle may deliver greater benefit and at reduced cost."

The route profile (published in the BMJ article) doesn't favour the steel bike, including as it does two stiff climbs to get over the hills to the south of Sheffield and up the hill from Chesterfield to the hospital.

In this context, the O.P's defensive tone is a bit off...

 

[yello]

I note CycleActive have referred to this as well in their Feb issue. As FM says, it was just a bit of 'fun science'; I suspect even the BMJ has its lighter moments.

I doubt there's anything other than a bit 'tongue-in-cheek' self-deprecation going on in the conclusion.

 

[the snail]

Sounds like common sense, 4.5kg is not going to make much difference and spending thousands on a fancy bike won't magically make you faster or a better cyclist - but don't let that stop you G.A.S. victims, you know that titanium wotsit will turn you into Lance Armstrong, of course it will

 

[GordonB]

This subject is a constant source of bickering entertainment between Rezillo and myself on our rides through the Suffolk countryside, John maintaining his preference for shiny modern stuff whilst sucking on the dust produced by the rear tyre of my vintage steel . Witty remarks abound like, "real men use downtube shifters, not those gurly brake shifter thingys", "careful of that puddle, you'll make that tin can of yours rust away", and cruellest of all in the case of my wonderful bonded frame Vitus bikes, "do they put it together with Pritt Sticks?".

There's no reason why an old fashioned steel bike should "weigh a ton", my Mecacycle, which cost me less than £300 to restore and rebuild, weighs 9.5kg all up, about 900g more than a £2000 Orbea Onix.

In the end we are both very content with what we have and acknowledge that both genres have their strengths. The big difference so far as I'm concerned is that for the price of a quality modern bike I can buy - and have done so - several classic lightweight racers..........

Gordon