Driverless lorries,,,,

[classic33]

Maybe we should look at the problem a new way.
Turn over the high speed rail link to freight in containers.
This is only being built so MP’s can get home early on Fridays.
Then Toll-charge large HGV on the M6 as on the Continent.
This will free up the M6 and cut Diesel Fuel use and pollution significantly.

For us Brexit was about the Chiclana tram fiasco.
Why did a population of only 80 thousand get offered a free tram system?
The Germans built the trams at only 8 million Euros each, ours cost less than 1 million.
The Dutch the French and the Italians built the track and the signalling.
And we just paid for it.
Best estimates of Chiclana officials it will have to close in under two years due to cost.

Brexit now today, just Declare UDI that’s Unilateral Declaration of independence.
Then stop the money going to the EU.
The trough will dry up and they will soon sing to our new Hymn sheet.

Now explain how "driverless lorry" trials fit into that.

 

[Vapin' Joe]

I haven't ploughed through all of this thread, but a fully automated road transport system with only driverless vehicles has got to be a win win situation. Accidents and congestion will (Apart from the odd high profile event like you get on the very safe rail network) be slashed to almost nothing.

Drverless won't be rolled out until it has been fully tested to the Nth degree, so all the "What ifs" are irrelevant. And I say this as someone who enjoys driving.

 

[Prometheus]

Now explain how "driverless lorry" trials fit into that.

It’s one way to stop a convoy of up to 10 44 ton lorry’s thundering down the M6 at 60MPH
With no responsible person at the wheel.
That convoy will cover a mile at least, break down and you will be stuck in the centre lane.

 

[classic33]

It’s one way to stop a convoy of up to 10 44 ton lorry’s thundering down the M6 at 60MPH
With no responsible person at the wheel.
That convoy will cover a mile at least, break down and you will be stuck in the centre lane.

How do trams fit in though?

Given that only the Northern half of the M6 is being used, with a driver in each cab. Part of the trial is how easy it will be to join/leave, the drivers required.

Northern half of the M6 chosen again, due to a lower number of entry points.

 

[Prometheus]

How do trams fit in though?

Given that only the Northern half of the M6 is being used, with a driver in each cab. Part of the trial is how easy it will be to join/leave, the drivers required.

Northern half of the M6 chosen again, due to a lower number of entry points.

Double stack rail transport with a hundred containers per train is the way to go.
It will make these small Islands seem a lot bigger.

 

[srw]

Sadly our unemployment rate is pretty much fictitious nowadays.
[...]
I have a very good source for this, a senior manager at a Job Centre Plus.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes

75% of the population between 16 and 64 is in employment - the highest ever recorded proportion. Forgive me for trusting national statistics rather than the anecdotes of a random local manager.

I think that's a very generalist post

#cafe #keepingitfrivolous

Yes - there are massive risks to individuals and the economy from current employment and education policy, which is barking mad. But I simply do not accept the proposition that it is automatically a bad thing, for individuals or the economy, that specific kinds of employment vanish - which was (roughly) GV's assertion.

Not in the same numbers

Thank you for making my point for me.

The Freakonomics podcast on the subject is a good listen.

 

[srw]

Double stack rail transport with a hundred containers per train is the way to go.
It will make these small Islands seem a lot bigger.

Much of the rail network is already completely chock-a-block (good luck finding a slot to get that train anywhere near London), and we've spent the last 40 years removing freight from the railways. In the long run, a mixture of long-distance rail, driverless HGV convoys on the motorways and driverless electric LGVs for local deliveries is the most sensible outcome. But investing in rail is extremely expensive and requires central government money. It's cheaper to pave the way for lorry convoys.

 

[marinyork]

#cafe #keepingitfrivolous

Yes - there are massive risks to individuals and the economy from current employment and education policy, which is barking mad. But I simply do not accept the proposition that it is automatically a bad thing, for individuals or the economy, that specific kinds of employment vanish - which was (roughly) GV's assertion.

Absolutely. My kind of employment may 'vanish' and I'm not convinced that's a bad thing. In theory it's easily automated and frees up tasks/new roles for other things I want to do in my job (not so sure whether others want to do them) - already happened in doctors surgeries, libraries, McDonalds etc.

Like the podcast.

 

[classic33]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes

75% of the population between 16 and 64 is in employment - the highest ever recorded proportion. Forgive me for trusting national statistics rather than the anecdotes of a random local manager.


#cafe #keepingitfrivolous

Yes - there are massive risks to individuals and the economy from current employment and education policy, which is barking mad. But I simply do not accept the proposition that it is automatically a bad thing, for individuals or the economy, that specific kinds of employment vanish - which was (roughly) GV's assertion.


Thank you for making my point for me.

The Freakonomics podcast on the subject is a good listen.

Well we've fewer horse drawn wagons on the roads nowadays. Not as much need for horses to be shod or wheels to be fitted with rims. But I can find two blacksmiths, within walking distance. Grooms(for work horses), I live next door to one.

Look on the bright side, you no longer go to a blacksmith to get a broken bone set or get a tooth pulled.

 

[jefmcg]

For us Brexit was about the Chiclana tram fiasco.
Why did a population of only 80 thousand get offered a free tram system?
The Germans built the trams at only 8 million Euros each, ours cost less than 1 million.
The Dutch the French and the Italians built the track and the signalling.
And we just paid for it.
Best estimates of Chiclana officials it will have to close in under two years due to cost.

Brexit now today, just Declare UDI that’s Unilateral Declaration of independence.
Then stop the money going to the EU.
The trough will dry up and they will soon sing to our new Hymn sheet

Shut up

 

[burntoutbanger]

Look on the bright side, you no longer go to a blacksmith to get a broken bone set or get a tooth pulled.

Speak for yourself sonny!

 

[classic33]

Speak for yourself sonny!

I can get one to set yours if you've broken one. His missus is a vet.

 

[growingvegetables]

Manual labour, which involves getting dirty in the process is looked down on these days.

Hmmm. It's a bit more complex.

Visited this once. Not repeating it. Sorry - I just couldn't stomach the "regeneration after the coal mines mythology" - seeing that "regeneration" means employing a very few ex-miners (with all their history, skills and pride) as "behind-the-scenes" cleaners, while their skimpily clad grand-daughters get paid minimum wage to skimpily flirt.

 

[growingvegetables]

... But I simply do not accept the proposition that it is automatically a bad thing, for individuals or the economy, that specific kinds of employment vanish - which was (roughly) GV's assertion.

I made no such assertion?

I did, perhaps, allude to the fact (?) that this ain't frivolous.

Yes, our corporate masters can do everything in their power to reduce the "cost to the consumer". Automate the driving. Automate the call-centres. Automate the tills. Automate the warehouses and the product-picking. Automate the deliveries. Automate ... whatever. Automate, automate, automate - cut the "people costs".

But robots don't buy things. Sorry - Economics 101 - people buy products, and they need an income? Rather more generous than the JSA they'll receive once their job has been automated?

 

[Drago]

Who builds the robots? Who services the robots? Who sells the robots?

Not other robots. At least, not yet.

The jobs don't disappear. They simply move elsewhere in the commerce stream. Just look at all the people the economy supports who don't create, produce or manage anything tangible. Like politicians. Journalists. Actors. Jimmy Carr. They do alright out of not doing anything remotely useful, so why shouldn't anyone else?