Drivers' courtesy towards cyclists

[Little My]

Hi everyone, just want to ask about your experiences regarding drivers' courtesy towards cyclists. If it has been discussed elsewhere, please point me in a right direction.
It has been bugging me for ages, but are drivers in general more aggressive, confrontational towards male cyclists, whereas women get more leeway? I heard about the experiment with a guy wearing a blond wig and he was given more space when overtaking, but was it really like out there? Or does it actually depend on one's style of riding and extending courtesy to other road users?
My boyfriend cycles regularly and he seem to have quite a lot of issues with what he terms 'moronic drivers' (not looking, cutting up, on the phone, etc), but then I find his style of riding quite aggressive (always in front of the queue of cars, squeezing in tight spaces, riding as fast as he can), though I must stress he obeys the highway code (Never jumps red lights, indicates, wears lights etc). I also need to point out when I first started riding in London, he showed me the ropes and how to ride safely (stay away from the gutter, take primary, read the road, indicate in good time, NOT to undertake buses and lorries, etc).
I've been riding around London for over two years now and only had one incident (driver turning right from the opposite lane across my path without checking for cyclists, thank god for decent brakes!)
I suppose my cycling style in slightly different then his, I try to ride reasonably fast, I'd say I'm confident, but cautious and always take the 'moron factor' into consideration (inattentive drivers that haven't seen me or I think they might do something stupid like cut me up), prepared to let the idiots go before I carry on my way. However, I noticed that majority of drivers are courteous anyway - stay way behind, overtake safely or even give me more space (recently was rolling down A3 in the bike lane and noticed an Asda van and council lorry actually moving to the right so I could go past safely). On the other had at uni recently I spoke to a fellow female cyclist and she was asking me if I get lots of abuse from car drivers. I looked at her incredulously as it's completely different from my experience (Ironically that week I got beeped by two morons for daring to ride in primary on the roundabout and not letting them cut me up). We chatted for a bit, and talked about road positioning and I pointed her out to a blog and some you tube channels I found very helpful.
So my question is - does it really matter WHO is on the bike or rather HOW do you cycle?

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

The difficulty assessing this, of course, is that, unless you have a sex change, you can't build up personal experience of both and even then, you'd still be unable to answer ''What would have happened if I were still a man/woman? For the overwhelming majority of us, all we can do is experiment with how we cycle. I've resorted to deliberate wobbles, leaving clothing flapping, at times in the past, and it seems to have worked. But, again, it still leaves you with the ''what would have happened...?'' question unanswered

As a generalisation, men will probably be more confrontational in the way they negotiate their right to be on the road. This will quite possibly tend to make the ''male'' experience of cycling more stressful, more adrenalin-producing.

 

[biggs682]

how many drivers can tell the difference between male & female cyclists once helmets are on etc etc

 

[mattobrien]

Short answer, no.

More likely to do with motorists attitudes to cyclists, than gender specific. Then there are a thousand other factors that could be involved in any incident and subsequent different perceptions of the said incident by the parties involved.

If we all try harder then hopefully we will all get better :-)

 

[Drago]

But how many cyclists also have apalling road craft skills? Even people who should no better, people who are clearly 'enthusiasts' who have invested a lot of money on their bike and kit will behave terribly on the road. The mode of travel seems to jar little bearig on ones propensity to behave and ride/drive like a tool.

It's not motorist v cyclist. It's moronic road user v sensible and conscientious road user.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

I think a lot has to do with your personal idiot threshold and attitude towards the motor vehicle.

There's people of both sexes on Twitter who will complain of as many bad incidents in a week as I'll perceive in months. Now either I'm a far better cyclist in terms of positioning to quell problems and am exuding a very big don't f**k with me aura OR they have a far lower tolerance of cars full stop what they see around them than I do.

I strongly suspect the latter.

 

[Little My]

Thank you for you replies so far. I must admit my question is rather clumsy, but I'm not sure how to refine it.

I guess I was after a sort of rough exploration of what is it like out there and maybe gender actually isn't much of a factor at all and it's just me still stuck in the stereotypes? (Thinking I get treated nicely because I'm a girl on a folding bike, whereas a roadie lycra clad bloke would get passed too closely and sworn at). Obviously it's impossible to see what it's like for the other gender, but when seeing people on the roads, do you ever think to yourself - Oh, I wouldn't get away with that, yet he/she did or Oh, I wouldn't do it myself as I'm not up to that (in my case filtering through tight gaps when I can't see what's ahead).

Quite a few of you rightly point out the cycle craft and road sense is a very important factor (as there is plenty of idiot road users of both genders).

I also suspect it matters WHERE you ride. In my neck of the woods there are zillions of cyclists, so motorists are used to them, hence they seem to know how to drive safely around bikes. However, when I ride around near my boyfriend's, where cyclists are few and far between, the proportion of ignorant and dangerous motorists seems to be much higher.

Biggs - I think most of the time it's fairly easy to tell the difference between male and female cyclists, as they dress and move differently

 

[swee'pea99]

I find drivers very courteous on the whole.

As one simple example. I used on my daily commute to come down one narrow one-way stretch of road, perhaps 2-300m long, cars parked all the way along on both sides, and routinely I would have cars slowing down to follow me all the way down. Now, overtaking along that stretch would be possible. Aggressive, borderline unsafe, but certainly possible. I'd say the number of cars that tried to muscle past in that way over the years might have amounted to one in a hundred, if that. The vast majority just accepted the couple of minutes delay, and gave me space.

Overall, I had very little trouble with bad drivers in all the years I commuted 15 miles/day into/out of Central London. And of the incidents I witnessed during that time, I'd say at least as many were caused by self-righteous twat cyclists as by scumbag drivers.

I'm a great believer in karma. Ooom. Be alert, be considerate, acknowledge drivers (and others) who behave considerately toward you, and when you do encounter a twat, roll your eyes and let them get about their business. Don't go out of your way to make them into a better person; it probably won't work. And stands a good chance of leaving you picking your own teeth off the road.

Just...chill. And anticipate, anticipate, anticipate.

 

[Black Sheep]

in the same city I noticed that I got treated differently depending on my road positioning and when and how I moved around on the road. If I was more aggressive with my riding, I got treated more aggressively in return, if I was assertive but relaxed i my riding (no difference to speed) then I seemed to get more space etc.

 

[BigonaBianchi]

My experiences of drivers are that they are at least morons and at worst murderous. In between they are offensive, rude, selfish, irresponsible, inconsiderate, arrogant, and down right bloody dangerous. I have no time for them whatsoever.

 

[Archie_tect]

You tend to get back what you give out... certainly that's my experience of cycling up here on rural roads, mind you even in Newcastle people tend to be OK, Skoda mini-cabs and black cabs tend to be the worst.

{Edit: perhaps unfortunate that I followed BoaB. You've probably more riding time BoaB, so you're more likely to have more cynicism than me.]

 

[deanE]

“on a folding bike”? is that the difference? Motorists, perhaps, don’t expect the person on the average folding bike to be experienced, so keep out of their way?

 

[Miquel In De Rain]

I notice most of the time cycling down the Leytonstone backstreets that it isn't too bad and sometimes people wave as thanks,esp if I let them pass.Generally I try to be considerate.

 

[awfulquiet]

I live in a posh area (not in the UK).

I see/receive idiotic behaviour from cages about 2% of the time I'm out, broken down as follows:

Group of Young Males: shouting stuff out the window (I'm a fat bloke on a posh bike, so apparently there's some goal in shouting something which I can't make out as they pass by at 90kph). This doesn't happen often.

Older Men: they're in their 60s.. tend to be in less expensive cars and can't stand being 'held up' by a cyclist on narrow streets. This happens a few times per month.

Women: this is perhaps the biggest source of risk in my experience. The number of times I've been cut up, pulled out in front of (after looking them directly in the eye), passed with inches to spare or simply pushed off the road by women in the 30 to 60 year age brackets is astonishing. Most of the time they're driving posh cars (Audis, BMWs, or expensive Chelsea Tractors). I label them the 'Entitlement Generation', the "get out of my way, I've got shopping to do, and I don't care if I kill you, you're in MY way!" individual.

Oddly enough, 30 to 50 year old men in Audis/BMWs give me tons of space... It's odd. The people you think would be twats to cyclists, aren't... Maybe they're cyclists too? No idea.

 

[BigonaBianchi]

Women: this is perhaps the biggest source of risk in my experience. The number of times I've been cut up, pulled out in front of (after looking them directly in the eye), passed with inches to spare or simply pushed off the road by women in the 30 to 60 year age brackets is astonishing. Most of the time they're driving posh cars (Audis, BMWs, or expensive Chelsea Tractors). I label them the 'Entitlement Generation', the "get out of my way, I've got shopping to do, and I don't care if I kill you, you're in MY way!" individual.

You and I both...it' typicl of all those type of women do..not just driving...it's just that in their cars they have a lethal weapon.