Drugs in other sports

[Hotblack Desiato]

Nor David Ferrer. A player I have never even seen look out of breath, let alone tired.

Men's tennis, at the very top, seems to be more and more about who can physically outlast his opponent, which is cause for serious concern. And you know something's wrong when even the players are saying they are not tested enough.

People like Andy Murray. As a passive watcher of tennis I have noticed his change from a slight physique to a considerably more muscular one. When he plays doubles with his brother the difference between the two is marked when they used to be quite similar.

Nevertheless, given Murray's stance it would be incredible if he was a drug cheat and whilst people may find him irritating he has never struck me as dishonest, probably too honest to be really popular*.

So I think it should not be assumed that a considerable increase in strength and endurance is invariably drug related rather that for many, drugs are a short cut to success that others have to achieve by hard work and perseverance. For me that makes drugs cheats all the more obnoxious.

*e.g.
"I think there's very little skill involved in the Tour de France," Murray said. "It's pretty much just physical. A lot of the way the teams work now is just science, the power, however many watts you're producing, they know all of it based on how much the heart rates, all those things. Whereas with tennis, you can't teach the skill by taking a drug."

 

[johnr]

The Guardian has published a drugs in sport special
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/series/drugs-in-sport-special

Note the frequent references to the woefulness of the UCI

 

[oldroadman]

People like Andy Murray. As a passive watcher of tennis I have noticed his change from a slight physique to a considerably more muscular one. When he plays doubles with his brother the difference between the two is marked when they used to be quite similar.

Nevertheless, given Murray's stance it would be incredible if he was a drug cheat and whilst people may find him irritating he has never struck me as dishonest, probably too honest to be really popular*.

So I think it should not be assumed that a considerable increase in strength and endurance is invariably drug related rather that for many, drugs are a short cut to success that others have to achieve by hard work and perseverance. For me that makes drugs cheats all the more obnoxious.

*e.g.
"I think there's very little skill involved in the Tour de France," Murray said. "It's pretty much just physical. A lot of the way the teams work now is just science, the power, however many watts you're producing, they know all of it based on how much the heart rates, all those things. Whereas with tennis, you can't teach the skill by taking a drug."

Which is quite correct, but you can condition your physique to execute those learned skills for longer, more consistently, and with less effects from tiredness. How that is done is what tennis, amongst other sports, needs to consider.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

It's not (just) about the drugs. A superb article on the depth of corruption in professional football.

 

[BJH]

People like Andy Murray. As a passive watcher of tennis I have noticed his change from a slight physique to a considerably more muscular one. When he plays doubles with his brother the difference between the two is marked when they used to be quite similar.

Nevertheless, given Murray's stance it would be incredible if he was a drug cheat and whilst people may find him irritating he has never struck me as dishonest, probably too honest to be really popular*.

So I think it should not be assumed that a considerable increase in strength and endurance is invariably drug related rather that for many, drugs are a short cut to success that others have to achieve by hard work and perseverance. For me that makes drugs cheats all the more obnoxious.

*e.g.
"I think there's very little skill involved in the Tour de France," Murray said. "It's pretty much just physical. A lot of the way the teams work now is just science, the power, however many watts you're producing, they know all of it based on how much the heart rates, all those things. Whereas with tennis, you can't teach the skill by taking a drug."

The problem with Murray and tis article is that if you were to take a view on whether he has or hasn't based on all the comments he makes, I think most people would have a different view.
He has moaned repeatedly about testing and it's encroachment.
If I was in his position at a level that close to the top of my sport and believed that these was any chance of my competitors cheating - I would be calling for as much testing as possible, middle of the night included.

There was a link in a thread on here to misuse of steroids in tennis which has sme very interesting comments. Where do the Williams sisters get their build from playing through three sets with serves getting faster. Nadal has an incredible build, but says he does no gym work, it's all from tennis.

More worrying for British sport is seeing our guy associating with trainers who have been involved with other misusers.

So for me, I have doubted him for some time and look forward to him explaining the speed he built his body up in.

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

The problem with Murray and tis article is that if you were to take a view on whether he has or hasn't based on all the comments he makes, I think most people would have a different view.
He has moaned repeatedly about testing and it's encroachment.
If I was in his position at a level that close to the top of my sport and believed that these was any chance of my competitors cheating - I would be calling for as much testing as possible, middle of the night included.

There was a link in a thread on here to misuse of steroids in tennis which has sme very interesting comments. Where do the Williams sisters get their build from playing through three sets with serves getting faster. Nadal has an incredible build, but says he does no gym work, it's all from tennis.

More worrying for British sport is seeing our guy associating with trainers who have been involved with other misusers.

So for me, I have doubted him for some time and look forward to him explaining the speed he built his body up in.

Unfortunately I am one of those who once believed Lance Armstrong was a great bike racer, so I ain't going to argue.. I just hope you are wrong.

 

[BrumJim]

Interesting comment on the radio this morning about boxing, noting that drugs bans do not result in sporting events being cancelled, except in the case of professional boxing.

Hence it is very much in the interests of a boxing promoter that neither fighter is found with drugs in his system, otherwise they will loose a lot of money.

 

[Licramite]

Maybe the answer is to say , you can take what you like boys - may the best drugs win.- and accept a few may die.

oddly I read an interesting bit on the history of the Olympics were in the (20s or 30s I think) one cycle race was won by a guy who caught a train part way.
The ancient Greeks and Romans used "natural" stimulants before the games (the Greeks I think was other Greeks but we won't go there)
theres fairly strong evidence that gladiators were "fortified" before the games to increase their aggression levels ignore pain and resist fear.

nothings new.

 

[Hont]

The problem with Murray...He has moaned repeatedly about testing and it's encroachment. If I was in his position.... I would be calling for as much testing as possible, middle of the night included.

Well he has said that more recently...

http://www1.skysports.com/tennis/ne...doping-controls-in-tennis-have-to-be-improved
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/tennis/murray-lets-flush-out-the-drug-cheats.19282031

So for me, I have doubted him for some time and look forward to him explaining the speed he built his body up in.

I have a lot of concerns about Tennis, but I don't see that his body has built up particularly fast. Most full-time athletes should be able to build that amount of muscle at that age with a dedicated fitness trainer helping them. If he is doping, then he's not doing it very well, as I thought he looked tired throughout the Australian open final, breathing very heavily after only one set, as if he had not recovered from his semi-final.

Djokovic on the other hand seemed to recover superbly after a much longer match against Wawrinka.

 

[thom]

Let me be the first to mention Oscar Pistoffius as regards the Testosterone and Steroids reports.
Paralympic sport is a whole area I had not considered but for sure these sports stars have a lot riding on their results. The financial motivation is there too.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Let me be the first to mention Oscar Pistoffius as regards the Testosterone and Steroids reports.

Why? It seems the stories are quite likely to be rubbish given the testimony of the arresting officer yesterday.

 

[thom]

Why? It seems the stories are quite likely to be rubbish given the testimony of the arresting officer yesterday.

You think that because the officer is himself separately accused of murder, he would perjure himself with regards to Pistorius' crime ? Maybe I missed something - is there some reason to believe he fabricated that particular evidence, that the officer is lying here ?
He may be incompetent in his job and eventually shown to be a murderer but I'm sceptical about presuming he's stupid enough to lie about such a public crime and such a material piece of relatively incidental evidence - either it exists or it doesn't.

 

[Crackle]

You think that because the officer is himself separately accused of murder, he would perjure himself with regards to Pistorius' crime ? Maybe I missed something - is there some reason to believe he fabricated that particular evidence, that the officer is lying here ?
He may be incompetent in his job and eventually shown to be a murderer but I'm sceptical about presuming he's stupid enough to lie about such a public crime and such a material piece of relatively incidental evidence - either it exists or it doesn't.

I wouldn't be too hasty yet. Botha is looking more incompetent by the minute. I think he changed what it was from steroids to Testosterone, missed a casing in the toilet, took the wrong phones, didn't wear protective clothing etc...

 

[Flying_Monkey]

You think that because the officer is himself separately accused of murder, he would perjure himself with regards to Pistorius' crime ? Maybe I missed something - is there some reason to believe he fabricated that particular evidence, that the officer is lying here ?

I'm not talking about the investigation into his crimes, I'm talking about the fact that he admitted in his testimony that he didn't actually know what the substances found were before telling the press they were steroids, and which Pistorius has insisted are a legal substance. They remain untested as yet. There's enough speculation around this tragic case already. I'd rather not add to it.

 

[thom]

I'm not talking about the investigation into his crimes, I'm talking about the fact that he admitted in his testimony that he didn't actually know what the substances found were before telling the press they were steroids, and which Pistorius has insisted are a legal substance. They remain untested as yet. There's enough speculation around this tragic case already. I'd rather not add to it.

That's fair enough but the point of my earlier post wasn't actually to speculate on Pistorius but to remark that Paralympic sports may well be one of the "other sports" where doping is currently occurring and that this would have been an area I had naively overlooked. Apologies if this wasn't clear... !
Edit, that and to find a place to make a weak pun on Pistorius' surname ;-)