knocksofbeggarmen
Active Member
Fair's fair. I've only started and you have a big lead.
dumbass LCC bike lane on Stratford High Street
- Thread starter dellzeqq
- Start date
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steveindenmark
Legendary Member
My point was that you have to start somewhere. seeing as you are so good at statistics, maybe you can tell me how many regular cyclists London has compared to Copenhagen.
Steve
so much time, so little to say......control 'I'
Putting him in italics? Ruthless!
Frood42
I know where my towel is
- Location
- Magrathea, Horsehead Nebula
Twelve Spokes
Time to say goodbye again...
- Location
- CS 2
Just read the original post and I use this cycle lane obviously.I agree I don't think this layout is a good thing for peds.
knocksofbeggarmen
Active Member
Thing is, I don't agree with you, and someone who actually lives there doesn't either.
knocksofbeggarmen
Active Member
"You mention Belgium, and it makes an interesting comparison. Ride across the border from NL and the low quality of the cycling infrastructure is immediately apparent. You also stop seeing so many cyclists. This happens even just over the border in the rather flat bit just south of Eindhoven, which is less hilly than Limburg. I'd call that correlation." http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2009/10/effect-of-hills-on-cycling.html
knocksofbeggarmen
Active Member
I can't make up my mind whether these ad-hominem remarks are robust support for a view, or what might colloquially be known as 'abuse'. Do you know?
I wouldn't venture an argument from authority and I conceed that what David hembrow says does not, of itself, settle a damn thing. But neither does your claim to have "cycled extensively in both countries" settle anything, or give you authority.
If you want to know why David Hembrow is influential in campaigns including the LCC, I suppose it is because his arguments are usually backed up by detailed citation of road layout examples, statistics, and first hand knowledge.So far, what you want to say to me constitutes name-calling. So Goodbye, and these knocksofbeggarmen promise not to darken your door no more.
Wobblers
Euthermic
- Location
- Minkowski Space
Well, to be fair, I'd tend to agree with @knocksofbeggarmen over the part about pedestrians.
I don't agree with the rest of the analysis though. If you ask a non-cyclist why they don't cycle, most often they'll say that it's due to the busy roads - fear of traffic, in other words. Those who do say they'd cycle if there were more facilities when questioned add that they perceive facilities will keep traffic away from them. In other words, it's still fear of traffic.
There are a number of ways of dealing with that fear. Segregation is perhaps the worst, as it is impossible to entirely seperate cyclists from motorised traffic. It encourages the customary concrete ghettos that are so symptomatic of cycling provision in this country. Ghettos that moreover are seldom of any use. I would argue that training is far more useful in dealing with that fear. Furthermore, to push segregation as The Solution does nothing to address the real problem - the high traffic densities on the roads... and that small but oh so significant fraction of appalling motorists. Cycling in central London is a joy - and that's without any cycling facilities to speak of. The fall in traffic density thanks to congestion charging has been a significant deterrent to driving but has immensely encouraging to more cycling.
To focus exclusively on segregation and facilities lets down everyone by ignoring the problem that our streets are simply overcrowded. There is little room for the facilities knocksofbeggarmen and others would like to see, nor the money for them. Neither is there the motivation (or for that matter, skills) to construct high quality and safe facilities - or any willingness to maintain them to a decent standard. You do not get cars off the road by building cycle paths, you do it by prioritising public transport and congestion charging.
Wobblers
Euthermic
- Location
- Minkowski Space
Correlation is not causation.
Frood42
I know where my towel is
- Location
- Magrathea, Horsehead Nebula
I cycle the CS2 extension every day (4 times, 2 east to west, 2 west to east), and while it is nice to have a little seperation from traffic, overall the design and implementation of it is very poor.
The bus bypasses are too narrow and too sharp, the pavements around these are high with a large step off.
It gives way at every junction and provides no protection from left turning vehicles.
Overtaking can also be a problem, as it narrows in places, meaning capacity is limited.
The recent rain has also shown up just how bad the drainage is, very poor, with large puddles building up in places (meaning people take to the pavement or road in attempt to get around).
Just like the blue paint of the Super Highways, it gives a false sense of safety, and they have not tackled the main problem, the junctions.
It also takes you to a very bad roundabout (Bow) where traffic tries to get onto the A12, the solution is a head start area that is light controlled, which is fine unless cars are all queued up in that advanced area or are queued up on the roundabout (which happened during the recent A12 closure).
Most cyclists also if heading for Central London tend to go over the Flyover, but that has now been made more difficult in both directions... did they take any notice or do any studies?
My main gripe though is that it starts nowhere and ends nowhere.
It sits in a concrete no mans land, with big, open fast roads, and leads to the rest of the CS2 which is again big, wide open very fast roads which offer no protection from idiots who treat those roads as a motorway.
Also, where's the link up with the bus station, train station or shopping centres?
Westfield Stratford City, or the bus/train station could have been a perfect place to have a sort of bike hub, especially in the summer, and even more so with the development going on next to the shopping centre (don't even get me started on the joke cycleways and even more laughable bike storage around the Shopping Centre...)
I would say however that it is better than the CS2 painted guideway from Bow Roundabout to Mile End station, fast moving impatient undertakers are a pain in the neck on that piece of road, and as it is not a proper cycle lane traffic generally ignores it...
I prefer the CS8 over the CS2 when I have opportunity to head over that way, the CS8 is far from perfect, but I believe it is a nicer ride.
Oh, and all the horse crap that has appeared on the CS2 extension recently, arrrrggghhhh!!!
.
The bus bypasses are too narrow and too sharp, the pavements around these are high with a large step off.
It gives way at every junction and provides no protection from left turning vehicles.
Overtaking can also be a problem, as it narrows in places, meaning capacity is limited.
The recent rain has also shown up just how bad the drainage is, very poor, with large puddles building up in places (meaning people take to the pavement or road in attempt to get around).
Just like the blue paint of the Super Highways, it gives a false sense of safety, and they have not tackled the main problem, the junctions.
It also takes you to a very bad roundabout (Bow) where traffic tries to get onto the A12, the solution is a head start area that is light controlled, which is fine unless cars are all queued up in that advanced area or are queued up on the roundabout (which happened during the recent A12 closure).
Most cyclists also if heading for Central London tend to go over the Flyover, but that has now been made more difficult in both directions... did they take any notice or do any studies?
My main gripe though is that it starts nowhere and ends nowhere.
It sits in a concrete no mans land, with big, open fast roads, and leads to the rest of the CS2 which is again big, wide open very fast roads which offer no protection from idiots who treat those roads as a motorway.
Also, where's the link up with the bus station, train station or shopping centres?
Westfield Stratford City, or the bus/train station could have been a perfect place to have a sort of bike hub, especially in the summer, and even more so with the development going on next to the shopping centre (don't even get me started on the joke cycleways and even more laughable bike storage around the Shopping Centre...)
I would say however that it is better than the CS2 painted guideway from Bow Roundabout to Mile End station, fast moving impatient undertakers are a pain in the neck on that piece of road, and as it is not a proper cycle lane traffic generally ignores it...
I prefer the CS8 over the CS2 when I have opportunity to head over that way, the CS8 is far from perfect, but I believe it is a nicer ride.
Oh, and all the horse crap that has appeared on the CS2 extension recently, arrrrggghhhh!!!
.
GrumpyGregry
Here for rides.
quite. The rules governing cycling in Belgium seem to me to be designed to stop groups of people going out for a fun ride.
Fab Foodie
hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
- Location
- Kirton, Devon.
May I just mention that I've driven south of Eindhoven then driven across the border of both Belgium and France this evening and barely seen a cyclist since leaving Boxmeer?
