Dutchie Dapper or Gazelle heavy duty NL ?

[Chess]

Hi all,
Whilst I'm struggling with osteoarthritis, I still want to ride, so a friend recommended a Dutch style bike.
Whilst doing research, I noticed a member on here has a Dutchie Dapper - mjr maybe ? I can't remember. I've never heard of them, but they look interesting and I'd like to learn more.

Anyway, if anyone can give a review of either of the bikes I would appreciate your thoughts.
I live in a hilly area so 7 or 8 speed is a must, and I like hub gears, low maintenance, dynamos and mudguards ect, which come as standard on these bikes.
The dutchie is a lot cheaper than the gazelle, but is it just as good ? Will it last as long ?
I'll be using it daily for my 5 mile ( total ) commute and for shopping duties so want something sturdy and reliable.
Anyone's thoughts and advice /recommendations would be appreciated.
Many thanks.

 

[Chess]

How much are you happy to spend? How heavy a bike can you live with?

I don't worry about the weight as when I'm rolling I don't notice it.
As far as spending goes, the gazelle is about £740. The Dutchie though is a good £200 cheaper and I wondered why as it's very similar in spec to the dearer one. So happy to spend what it takes for a good bike really.

 

[mjr]

Dutchie's a much less famous brand than Gazelle, which probably accounts for some of it, but there is a reason it's less sought-after IMO. Some of the finishing touches on the Dapper are debatable, shall we say? For example, the coat guard is metal clipped onto the mudguard, so wears the paint away if it rattles loose. Or the chaincase doesn't have a removable rear section so you have to remove the whole thing to take the wheel out and it's held closed by pozidrive screws and nothing else on the bike is. (Edit: I think mine is a 2011 model so some of these might have been fixed.)

For all that, the Dapper is essentially a good bike and the small flaws are fixable for maybe half the price difference and I still ride it more than any other bike: I just think it's so much fun! I also get "nice bike" comments far more than any other I've ever had and I don't know whether I'd think the Gazelle similarly flawed, though!

I think the step-through sibling of the Dapper is the Chic, if you want to consider that too.

 

[mjr]

Oh and mine's a 3 speed currently running 43/56/75" gears and I wrangle it up the steepest hills in Norfolk (short 15%s IIRC) unladen. If I was somewhere proper hilly, I'd probably want at least five hub gears, I think.

 

[alicat]

Try something like the Liv Flourish 1. Shimano Nexus, dynamo lights, mudguards, rack etc and all good Shimano stuff (from a cursory inspection of the spec). You may have to hunt for stock depending on your size.

It is a women's bike so has a step through frame. Easy to hop on and off!

I have the Giant Expression 3 that I converted to Shimano Nexus 7 gears. The only advantage to mine is that it has roller brakes so less maintenance.

 

[alicat]

Meant to say that Liv is the women's version of Giant so the Flourish is an updated version of mine.

 

[Pale Rider]

I like Gazelles, the dearer ones are beautifully made.

There is a Heavy Duty model, but you won't need that - all Gazelles are built like tanks.

Cycle Heaven in York - not so far from you - keeps a good selection, they allow 15/20minute test rides.

The area around the shop is flat, so don't forget to put the bike into bottom gear to establish if that will be low enough for you.

http://www.cycle-heaven.co.uk/bikes/brands/gazelle/

 

[mjr]

Meant to say that Liv is the women's version of Giant so the Flourish is an updated version of mine.

The main drawback is aluminium frame rather than steel IMO.

Pretty much all of the bikes we're discussing use Shimano hubs which I've not been impressed with. The recommended lubrication is reportedly inadequate for coastal England so I've switched to Landrover swivel grease because mine was out of warranty anyway. The bearings had to be imported from Germany (no one held UK stock) and plenty of internal parts aren't sold separately so you end up buying a new innards if any part wears out or fails. Finally I've switched mine to a Sturmey Archer X-RD3 (I think... modern AW with hub brake). Rohloff are probably better but would double the cost of the bike, or more.

I mention this mainly so you're not surprised by it. It's still worth it IMO, despite the drawbacks.

 

[alicat]

The main drawback is aluminium frame rather than steel IMO.

And pray what is wrong with that?

 

[mjr]

And pray what is wrong with that?

Not wrong, but a drawback. It gives a different ride and it has no fatigue limit so it'll fail eventually.

 

[simon.r]

The 8 speed Pashley Roadster Sovereign http://www.pashley.co.uk/bikes/bicycles/roadster-sovereign.php looks to meet your requirements.

I note your comment about not being bothered about weight, but this bike is very heavy and I’d echo the points made above by @User13710

Having said that, I do enjoy riding mine and personally I don’t find the weight to be a problem for the type of riding I use it for - short trips up to about 10 miles, from my front door.

 

[alicat]

I agree steel is a nicer material. However I just love the hop on and go nature of my Giant. After 12 years I am about to replace the bottom bracket but that is all I have had to do to it.

 

[User169]

I've got a Gazelle Toer Populair. Weighs a tonne. Fine for riding a few kms around town, but I don't find it much fun for anything longer.

If you're really set on a trad Dutch bike, Azor is another brand worth taking a look at.

For my next commuter, I'm looking at the Batavus Tuesday (Dinsdag).

 

[Chess]

Thanks all for the informative replies. A lot more to this than I thought. Good points from all.
I've found a local chap who has a gazelle HD, he's kindly letting me have a test ride, though I don't know what size it is.
On looking at the specs they do a 54, then it jumps to a 59 - why no 56/57 ?
I'm 5' 10" so I would ride a 56 road bike or a 20" MTB
Doing further research on the gazelle, I notice it's thicker/chunkier Ali frame - good for carrying my little granddaughter on the weekend's.
Another YouTube video says 4 coats of treatment/paint on the frame, which can't be bad - I am looking for longevity as it's probably going to be the last bike I buy.
I'm going to try and get myself over to cycle heaven for a closer look and see which size is best.

Question about the nexus 7 speed hub on the Gazelle:- does it take grease or oil ? What kind ?And how often do you change it ?
Thanks again.

 

[mjr]

My Workcycles bike is made by Azor and it is lovely. Weighs a bit more than a tonne though.

I've decided that it doesn't matter too much to me how much a bike weighs because between Nov 2015 and this morning, I've made the Dutchie another kg heavier (or more like 700g) by fitting a dynamo, two brake hubs (including the cabling and brackets for the back one) and substituting an X-RD3 for the Nexus 3, so now it's 19kg! It feels more responsive though, which seems strange.

Even so, it's not going to be the heaviest by far: http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bik...overeign-buckingham-mens-classic-bicycle-20-5 claims the Pashley Sovereign is 20kg but that's the smallest of the three on http://www.pashley.co.uk/bikes/bicycles/roadster-sovereign.php (which doesn't state weights) and I've some doubts about its accuracy, based on what I remember reading elsewhere. And then you get makes like Hercules or Atlas which seem difficult to lift...

A reasonable road bike may be two-thirds the weight and a race-spec one a third, but then they can't carry a passenger on the rear rack seat while towing a trailer... bikes are optimised for different jobs.