E bike

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My wife and I both have e-bikes, which are very different, mine second hand before throttle was banned, with a hub motor, it will fairly zip along on the flat, but hills are a problem, and the gearing for both bikes means 16 MPH is about limit for both, hers mid engine far better on hills, but double the price.

Mine will fold in two so can fit in back of car. Hers needs a bike rack, and weight means only one bike can be officially carried on the rack.

My son gave me a good quality bike, and I have to admit on the flat it is faster than the e-bike, due to gearing. Also it is far lighter, know which one I want to carry onto the train.

So 6 mile is not far, and when living in Shotton and going to Chester on the old railway track or river bank it was faster with a standard bike, but Shotton to Mold well just outside Bryn-y-baal, to Shotton either standard or e-bike less than 20 minutes, return it was 90 minutes normal bike 45 minutes with wife's e-bike.

This
1650103650307.png
e-bike cost me around £750, folding, around 24 kg, 21 speed derailer gears, but even with that the gearing means 16 MPH max, just can't peddle any faster, only down hill free wheeling can I exceed 16 MPH. At 24 stone and 70 I am not as fit as your son, and do find hills a problem, but I live in Mid Wales and we have some steep bits.

If I changed the front sprocket, likely I could go faster, however at my fitness level once over the 16 MPH where I get motor assistance I would not exceed the 16 MPH anyway on those tyres, and to carry stuff means a ruck sack.

Wife's bike
1650104611162.png
is far better, also limited to 16 MPH, but hill climbing far better as motor drives through gears, it is lighter, it has thinner tyres so lower rolling resistance, and can have panniers, but the big difference is how the assistance is delivered.

Mine the motor cuts in when speed drops below a set limit, hers you set how much assistance it gives, so with mine level 1 cuts out over around 4.5 MPH, level 2 cuts out at around 10 MPH and level 3 at 16 MPH. Hers has Eco, Standard and Boost and they work thought the range of speeds.

Put weight on her pedal and you get immediate help, mine you need to turn the crank around 5 times before full assistance comes in, and without the throttle which is not permitted on new bikes, starting off at junctions up hill would be a problem.

Before buying the first bike (wifes) we tried some, one at a bike shop, other at a motorist shop, both hub motors, but the one in cycle shop the motor cut in far quicker, and had walk assist. Both would do same speed, and needed same effort, but the more expensive one was easier to start on a hill.

Except for steep hills I find never change gear, I stay in top gear, the hub gives enough assistance so don't need to change gear, the Gtech takes advantage of that, and has only one ratio, and uses a drive belt instead of chain, but to change belt there is a section of frame which comes out, this clearly makes the frame weaker, so the maximum permitted weight of the rider (85kg) so 13 stone 5 pound weight limit.

Halfords let me test ride one, they did not point out my being clearly over weight for the bike, and it did do well.

Weight is a problem with electric bikes, clearly 250 watt with some one 11 stone is twice the assistance to some one 22 stone. I am sure my bike would climb hills far better if I was lighter.
 
Doesn't look to bad - rear hub looks about the right size for a legal ebike

Problem with second hand ebikes is always the battery. They have to be looked after and e.g.
not allowed to get too low on charge
not charged in the cold
not stored too long without use

and even then only last for a number fo charge cycles - which is between 500 and 1000 and exactly what compromises a charge cycle is almost as contentious and whether or not helmets are worth wearing :eek:

all that is,of course, up to what you know, what the seller telles you and whether or not you trust them

Oh - and the main value in the whole thing is probably the amount of charge the battery can hold - either in Wh ot Ah - this maps to range so it is quite important.

ANyway - looks OK - good luck
 
Looking for 19 year old son.
6'5" tall.
19 stone.
For a 6 mile commute.
Wants an e bike, £800 ish budget.
Thoughts on this please

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/3210390939249804/
If your son has a flat commute and is not physically impaired, I would say that an ordinary non-e-bike will be as fast and as easy as an e-bike and a lot less trouble to maintain in every way - as well as being less likely to be the target of thieves and vandals.

I am 75 with a dodgy knee and ankle on one side; I took up cycling after a 10+ year break last year and was initially thinking of an e-bike; I've ended up with a normal bike and am very glad I did so. My sizing problem is the opposite to that of your son in that I am under 5ft tall so there was a much better possibility of getting a non-e-bike that fitted me comfortably; I can always buy a conversion kit if/when I need to, which might be something to think about maybe?
 
I see your point with battery, think wife's is 300 watt/hour, and mine is 12 amp/hour, hers 36 volt and mine 48 volt. So my battery would be 576 watt/hour. Neither have been fully discharged, think both are Li-lon, but Li-lon technology varies.

As to legal limit, 250 watt on a continuous basis needs continuous to be defined. I know my hub motor drops off under 6 MPH, so at lower speeds well under 250 watt, peak is 350 watt, but not the peak which matters. Clearly at 1000 watt peak it is well above 250 watt continuous, but 500 watt peak, what would that be?
 

cyberknight

As long as I breathe, I attack.
If your son has a flat commute and is not physically impaired, I would say that an ordinary non-e-bike will be as fast and as easy as an e-bike and a lot less trouble to maintain in every way - as well as being less likely to be the target of thieves and vandals.

I am 75 with a dodgy knee and ankle on one side; I took up cycling after a 10+ year break last year and was initially thinking of an e-bike; I've ended up with a normal bike and am very glad I did so. My sizing problem is the opposite to that of your son in that I am under 5ft tall so there was a much better possibility of getting a non-e-bike that fitted me comfortably; I can always buy a conversion kit if/when I need to, which might be something to think about maybe?

+1
im 54, im 4 months post collar bone operation and im doing 10 miles each way to work
 

PaulSB

Legendary Member
Looking for 19 year old son.
6'5" tall.
19 stone.
For a 6 mile commute.
Wants an e bike, £800 ish budget.
Thoughts on this please

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/3210390939249804/

My thoughts would be why? It's only six miles and an e-bike would seem a very costly investment for a ride which he should do easily in 25/30 minutes once he's built up some stamina. £800 would buy a very good commuter.

My impression of the featured bike is it will be slow, heavy and hard work to pedal. The tyres are daft for road use, suspension forks unnecessary and the electric aspect of the bike is adding a lot of unnecessary weight. I'd consider it unsuitable for a six mile commute ebike or not.

Far better from a health and fitness perspective to use a bike. I see young people on e-bikes and it does make me wonder. 🤔
 
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My wife and I both have e-bikes, which are very different, mine second hand before throttle was banned, with a hub motor, it will fairly zip along on the flat, but hills are a problem, and the gearing for both bikes means 16 MPH is about limit for both, hers mid engine far better on hills, but double the price.

Mine will fold in two so can fit in back of car. Hers needs a bike rack, and weight means only one bike can be officially carried on the rack.

My son gave me a good quality bike, and I have to admit on the flat it is faster than the e-bike, due to gearing. Also it is far lighter, know which one I want to carry onto the train.

So 6 mile is not far, and when living in Shotton and going to Chester on the old railway track or river bank it was faster with a standard bike, but Shotton to Mold well just outside Bryn-y-baal, to Shotton either standard or e-bike less than 20 minutes, return it was 90 minutes normal bike 45 minutes with wife's e-bike.

This View attachment 640289 e-bike cost me around £750, folding, around 24 kg, 21 speed derailer gears, but even with that the gearing means 16 MPH max, just can't peddle any faster, only down hill free wheeling can I exceed 16 MPH. At 24 stone and 70 I am not as fit as your son, and do find hills a problem, but I live in Mid Wales and we have some steep bits.

If I changed the front sprocket, likely I could go faster, however at my fitness level once over the 16 MPH where I get motor assistance I would not exceed the 16 MPH anyway on those tyres, and to carry stuff means a ruck sack.

Wife's bike View attachment 640293 is far better, also limited to 16 MPH, but hill climbing far better as motor drives through gears, it is lighter, it has thinner tyres so lower rolling resistance, and can have panniers, but the big difference is how the assistance is delivered.

Mine the motor cuts in when speed drops below a set limit, hers you set how much assistance it gives, so with mine level 1 cuts out over around 4.5 MPH, level 2 cuts out at around 10 MPH and level 3 at 16 MPH. Hers has Eco, Standard and Boost and they work thought the range of speeds.

Put weight on her pedal and you get immediate help, mine you need to turn the crank around 5 times before full assistance comes in, and without the throttle which is not permitted on new bikes, starting off at junctions up hill would be a problem.

Before buying the first bike (wifes) we tried some, one at a bike shop, other at a motorist shop, both hub motors, but the one in cycle shop the motor cut in far quicker, and had walk assist. Both would do same speed, and needed same effort, but the more expensive one was easier to start on a hill.

Except for steep hills I find never change gear, I stay in top gear, the hub gives enough assistance so don't need to change gear, the Gtech takes advantage of that, and has only one ratio, and uses a drive belt instead of chain, but to change belt there is a section of frame which comes out, this clearly makes the frame weaker, so the maximum permitted weight of the rider (85kg) so 13 stone 5 pound weight limit.

Halfords let me test ride one, they did not point out my being clearly over weight for the bike, and it did do well.

Weight is a problem with electric bikes, clearly 250 watt with some one 11 stone is twice the assistance to some one 22 stone. I am sure my bike would climb hills far better if I was lighter.

You are comparing two very different bikes but it should be pointed out some hub motors with internal gearing get up to about 45Nm torque where as some of the very small low power models on small folding bikes can be as low as 12Nm. On mid-drive motors they start about 40Nm and go up to about 95Nm. There are some power losses with mid-drive due to the power going through the chain maybe 2-3%. You also have no restriction on chainrings with hub motors where as you are limited to 1 chainring on mid-drive. So even with a hub motor you can have much easier hill climbing just typically not quite as easy as mid-drive. Looking at that image the hub motor ebike looks like a basic dual suspension style bike with a hub motor fitted.

Looking at the Carrera Crossfuse spec it has a motor that peaks at 50Nm at the crank with a 42T front chainring and 34T maximum rear cog so about 40Nm peak torque through the drivetrain. A hub motor could easily match that climbing ability and with a 3x or 2x chainring setup you could even have a far better gear range for steeper hills. My point is hub motors can be quite competitive in power with Bosch's low power range of mid-drive motors. Those motors are often used with hub gears so have to have reduced power so they don't quickly destroy the hub gears and they also don't want a commuter type bike to wear through chains and drive components like a e-mountain bike but in doing so they are in the same area of power as hub motors. At that point I would say there are few advantages to mid-drive and pretty much its a no brainer to go with a geared hub motor for increased reliability, non-proprietary parts, massively reduced drivetrain wear compared to a normal bicycle and lightness. You can go with a torque sensor hub motor or you could just go with cadence sensor and a throttle controller which many prefer.

40-45Nm is about the going rate for torque for a reasonable geared hub motor and these motors have a clutch freewheel that means when unpowered there is no resistance so can be easier when used unpowered. The cheap yosepower hub motors about 40-45Nm depending on model.

https://yosepower.com/collections/uk-shipping?page=1
 
I don't disagree but he does.
He wants an e bike so when he finishes at midnight after a 9 hour shift walking round he wants an easy ride home
Given the 9 hours on his feet shift, now I can see how he's thinking - especially if you're in a hilly area.

If you're in a flat area, though, I honestly think the benefit of electrical assistance would be best appreciated on his ride to work rather than his ride from work, in order to arrive absolutely fresh; coming home after 9 hours walking it will be his feet and his joints that are 'killing' him - largely from weight-bearing and restricted flexion - and if the bike is set up correctly, his feet and his joints will be doing little to no weight bearing, but will have the benefit of gentle flexing. An easy ride and a beneficial one. If there are hills, though, electrical assist will definitely assist - but he'll need to be careful not to use it too much in order to still benefit from the exercise it enforces.
 

cyberknight

As long as I breathe, I attack.
I don't disagree but he does.
He wants an e bike so when he finishes at midnight after a 9 hour shift walking round he wants an easy ride home
i do a manual jobon my feet all day and finish at a similar time , on lates im lucky if i get to bed before 1.30 am :smile: i worked out when im fully fit( pre injury which im recovering from ) i used to lift up to 2 ton a day ,But if he feels he cant do it then fair enough. At the end of the day hes opting to cycle rather than car which is a win for his health etc
 
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