E-bikes remaining as vulnerable users.

[mjr]

It would be interesting to see the data. I don't have time to find the best sources now but a quick google suggests the maximum braking deceleration of a typical road car is around 0.8-1g and a bicycle around 0.5g but usually a fair bit less. The limiting factor of a bicycle being the rider going over the bars. With 4 wheeled vehicles it is usually tyre adhesion.

Sounds like Google's pollution by AI is getting worse, then. I am pretty sure tyre adhesion is the limiting factor for cycles, too, so the increased weight of e bikes may actually help.

 

[albion]

The original post ****** came from this recent court clarification.
https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.co...ules-that-e-bikes-are-bicycles-not-motorbikes
'Recent ruling designates e-bike riders as vulnerable road users, with implications for insurance'

Of course, an ebike is a motorbike when unrestricted. The old tax and insurance debate. Posters there too seem to miss that point.

 

[Alex321]

It would be interesting to see the data. I don't have time to find the best sources now but a quick google suggests the maximum braking deceleration of a typical road car is around 0.8-1g and a bicycle around 0.5g but usually a fair bit less. The limiting factor of a bicycle being the rider going over the bars. With 4 wheeled vehicles it is usually tyre adhesion.

The limiting factor for a bike is also usually tyre adhesion. I have locked the wheels on my bike a few times, but I haven't gone over the handlebars when braking since I was a kid.

 

[Alex321]

The original post likely came from this recent court clarification.
https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.co...ules-that-e-bikes-are-bicycles-not-motorbikes

Given that he quoted that link in the OP, I don't think there is any "likely" about it
https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.co...ules-that-e-bikes-are-bicycles-not-motorbikes

'Recent ruling designates e-bike riders as vulnerable road users, with implications for insurance'

Of course, an ebike is a motorbike when unrestricted. The old tax and insurance debate. Posters there too seem to miss that point.

Yes. We wrongly often use the term "ebike" to refer only to what are more properly called "e-assist" bikes.

And as you say, anything which does not comply with the regulations for those is classed as an electric motorbike, with all the relevant tax and insurance implications.

 

[Dadam]

The limiting factor for a bike is also usually tyre adhesion. I have locked the wheels on my bike a few times, but I haven't gone over the handlebars when braking since I was a kid.

Fair enough, I've never locked the front in the dry myself, but the fact that "stoppies" are a thing (particularly with MTB) suggests either the opposite, or at least "it depends".

 

[Alex321]

Fair enough, I've never locked the front in the dry myself, but the fact that "stoppies" are a thing (particularly with MTB) suggests either the opposite, or at least "it depends".

Usually with MTBs, those are on steep off road downhills.

I think I've only locked the front once, but I've locked the rear a few times.

The only time I've gone over the bars as an adult was on my hybrid, on a steep downhill narrow path when I hit a small branch that just stopped my front wheel dead.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Fair enough, I've never locked the front in the dry myself, but the fact that "stoppies" are a thing (particularly with MTB) suggests either the opposite, or at least "it depends".

I have never stopped the front wheel like that on my normal bike

Possibly because I was told, many years ago, how to shift my weight back as soon as I start to brake - so I sort of do it naturally now

However, our folder ebike is a different matter - I have caused the rear wheel to lift several times when stopping as the weight distribution is far further forward - relatively - so it doesn;t take much in terms of geometry, weight distribution and slope to change from "no chance of it happening" to "oh b****r"

I'm sur ethere are people out there that have proper details - but that is how it seems to work to me

 

[Mike_P]

This has probably be raised before somewhere on this forum but
is there any proper data on stopping distances for bikes compared to cars?
especially bikes with more weight such as ebikes
and also - bike whose rider may be "somewhat heavier" than any given Yates twin this increasing momentum rather a lot

I also wonder about the effect of different tyres on this
for example - smooth narrow road bike tyres compared to smoothish 700c tyres on a hybrid and all that stuff



Before someone else says it
CLEARLY a bike (ebike or not - fat git or not) causes far less damage and if far less likely to cause serious injury than a car
so a direct comparison is not relevant for all areas of discussion

but the raw data might be interesting

My ebike with disc brakes stops as quick if not quicker than my rim brake road bike.

 

[mjr]

My ebike with disc brakes stops as quick if not quicker than my rim brake road bike.

Unless you mean in the wet (when the disc brakes don't have to clear as much water before friction improves), that suggests you could put better pads on the rim brake or adjust them firmer. The limit on braking is usually the tyre starting to skid, not the brake pads being unable to grip the braking surface.

 

[rustedchain8919]

E bikes don't have a speed limit same as a normal bike

Yes they do. The motor will cut out at 15mph, but you can still pedal harder and go up to the speed limit, just without the motor, and since ebikes are heavier, I doubt many would be able to so they can only go up to 15mph.
Sure, you CAN illegally modify them, but most don't. So you can't "go any speed on an ebike"

Additionally, the speed limit is set by the law. And some really fit healthy cyclists can easily do 20mph+ without an ebike a d much easier. So really, any bike can go "any speed"

If a car has to exceed the speed limit to pass you, you're not going too fast, they are breaking the law. The car will need to wait behind you.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Yes they do. The motor will cut out at 15mph, but you can still pedal harder and go up to the speed limit, just without the motor, and since ebikes are heavier, I doubt many would be able to so they can only go up to 15mph.
Sure, you CAN illegally modify them, but most don't. So you can't "go any speed on an ebike"

Additionally, the speed limit is set by the law. And some really fit healthy cyclists can easily do 20mph+ without an ebike a d much easier. So really, any bike can go "any speed"

If a car has to exceed the speed limit to pass you, you're not going too fast, they are breaking the law. The car will need to wait behind you.

There are e-bikes and e-bikes. On this morning's ride my maximum was over 28mph, on a downhill admittedly but still pedalling. Often well over the 15mph assistance cut off. There is no e-bike speed limit.

 

[rustedchain8919]

There are e-bikes and e-bikes. On this morning's ride my maximum was over 28mph, on a downhill admittedly but still pedalling. Often well over the 15mph assistance cut off. There is no e-bike speed limit.

There is. The motor cuts out at 15mph. That's a speed limit. If you're talking about e-motorbikes or e-mopeds, that's different entirely. As I said, some people can certainly pedal faster than that, but it's no longer assisted by the motor. So there is a speed limit.

 

[Mike_P]

There is. The motor cuts out at 15mph. That's a speed limit. If you're talking about e-motorbikes or e-mopeds, that's different entirely. As I said, some people can certainly pedal faster than that, but it's no longer assisted by the motor. So there is a speed limit.

Its an assist limit not a speed limit and actually is 15.5mph

 

[rustedchain8919]

Its an assist limit not a speed limit and actually is 15.5mph

It's a speed limit. It stops the motor from going faster than that i.e, it limits the speed. And me leaving off .5mph really gets your knickers in a twist?

 

[Mike_P]

It's a speed limit. It stops the motor from going faster than that i.e, it limits the speed. And me leaving off .5mph really gets your knickers in a twist?

No it's doesn't limit speed, IME when going quicker beyond the assist limit I do not notice the motor has stopped assisting.