Ebike fires

[ebikeerwidnes]

Hi all
Just seen an article in the Liverpool Echo saying this

Nick Bailey of BatteryIQ, which provides a system to monitor the safety of e-bike batteries, said the e-bikes and e-scooters involved in fires are “always cut-price products sold through online marketplaces with lax quality control”.


He said: “There’s also a growing black market in DIY and counterfeit batteries, particularly for delivery riders, built using battery cells reclaimed from used disposable vapes.


(whole article is here)

Now we have all seen article about ebike fire and e-scooter fires in the press

and I have always suspected - although it is often not mentioned in the press article - that they are pretty well all caused by the cheaper end of the market
and probably a large part from cheap online batteries and chargers that are not subject to much in the way of testing and checking

but this article seems to put some more meat on the bone

the idea of "repurposing" old vape batteries to make cheap batteries for ebike is rather scary - that is a lot of "pre-used" batteries being put together all of unchecked and unknown previous history

and by definition all e-scooter are pretty much illegal so not regulated
and a lot of ebike kits are not much better


it does make me feel better having a bike/battery from a decent manufacturer!
I found it interesting so I thought I would share it

 

[ianrauk]

It is very interesting, especially about the vape batteries.
I commute in SE London on a daily basis and some of the hooky e-bikes that delivery riders, and more recently, just normal average joes seem to ride have such huge battery packs in the triangle, stuck together with black tape. A motor in the back wheel the size of an Alan Partridge dinner plate.
Do people who use these actually know, wonder or even care that they may be riding and keeping a death trap that could catch fire at any moment, possibly in a house.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

It is very interesting, especially about the vape batteries.
I commute in SE London on a daily basis and some of the hooky e-bikes that delivery riders, and more recently, just normal average joes seem to ride have such huge battery packs in the triangle, stuck together with black tape. A motor in the back wheel the size of an Alan Partridge dinner plate.
Do people who use these actually know, wonder or even care that they may be riding and keeping a death trap that could catch fire at any moment, possibly in a house.

We don;t have too many round here

Except that any one of them could cause a death

but yes - I have seen some that have never seen a regulation of any kind ever
and clearly cannot be taxed, insured or anything

There does seem to be an increase in items in the press in articles about the Police confiscating and destroying illegal ebikes and scooters
and setting up sites to test them at the roadside

never seen one but as I say - there do not seem to be that many round here - even delivery people seem to use cars mostly

 

[ianrauk]

never seen one but as I say - there do not seem to be that many round here - even delivery people seem to use cars mostly

Because it's London. It's far easier and usually quicker for deliveries to be done by bike. Less so out in the sticks where I live (Medway).
Every now and then on my commute into work. I've seen Police stings on e-bikes. But it's a rare occasion.

 

[dicko]

Sometimes Derby city police set a trap and confiscate e scooters/bikes but haven’t seen one lately.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Because it's London. It's far easier and usually quicker for deliveries to be done by bike. Less so out in the sticks where I live (Medway).
Every now and then on my commute into work. I've seen Police stings on e-bikes. But it's a rare occasion.

Yes - I agree

but round here there are large areas of counsel estates and dense other housing areas that you would have thought would produce a lot of local delivery need at short distances

but it doesn;t seem to produce the ebikes I would have thought
there used to be more around and there are still some - but much fewer

I reckon the drug gangs got hit
and the poverty levels on the counsel estate might have increased reducing the number of orders close enough

hasn;t reduced the number of takeaways though!!
(although some never seem to have any customers or delivery riders - so there might be more than one reason for that!!!)

 

[FrankCrank]

Hoping battery technology will continue apace, and solid state ones are the norm if I go leccie at some future date.

 

[albion]

A HiNA battery connected research team have just produced a Sodium Ion battery at I think 211wh/kg that 100% stops thermal runaway via a solidifying layer.
Not sure about costs or when/if production can start. But considering other sodium problems were fast solved alongside fast full production I imagine it won't be long to 100% safety for all of the already safer sodium ion batteries.

I reckon insurance requirements will mean the near death of both NMC and LFP.

 

[Seevio]

The problem with Na batteries is that the energy density comes nowhere close to Li batteries. This means that you have to either capacity or weight. Not an issue for static solutions like home storage solutions where the other advantages far outweigh Li, but it's a killer when it comes to mobile applications.

 

[albion]

The problem with Na batteries is that the energy density comes nowhere close to Li batteries. This means that you have to either capacity or weight. Not an issue for static solutions like home storage solutions where the other advantages far outweigh Li, but it's a killer when it comes to mobile applications.

They are now much the same as LFP but there might be a problem with round trip efficiency.
LFP wins, even beating NMC with near a 4% charge cost saving. I wonder what the round trip efficiency is on battery killing super fast charging. The new Sodium batteries are possibly still worse than NMC.

 

[albion]

Well, another rapidly growing storage battery manufacturer Cornex have announced their new batteries with round trip efficiency of 94.5%. So Sodium Ion must have solved that problem alongside the prior capacity issues.
At less than 50% of their LFP capacities I imagine it will be used for shipping container size batteries where safety is of paramount concern.

Interestingly Cornex seem to be one of the first to introduce self healing electrolyte technology to their 199wh/kg LFP cells. (dentrite suppression). 10 of those RF46 in a 5kg 1kwh battery pack looks a very good ebike battery contender.

 

[oxoman]

Most if not all Li copy batteries tend to be old laptop batteries, we have a similar issue with cordless power tool batteries and as such wont allow copy ones on site following a fire. A lot of other firms are also following suit.

 

[albion]

Most if not all Li copy batteries tend to be old laptop batteries, we have a similar issue with cordless power tool batteries and as such wont allow copy ones on site following a fire. A lot of other firms are also following suit.

Happened to a guy I met in Scarborough the other week. He was shocked my 345wh folding bike easily got their from Whitby. His 'ebay bike' only does '10 miles per charge'. I suspect most none brands contain used batteries, the cheapest ones using duff ones.
Wish I had warned him in that short conversation.