Edinburgh Commuters, your views need on the 20mph proposal

[HJ]

Edinburgh Commuters, those of you living on the south side will probable have seen the leaflet on proposed 20mph speed limit across a large area of South Central Edinburgh, (if you haven't there is more about it here). For some reason the council has decided to leave the main commuting routes at 30 mph, which is rather pointless, we need to just this consultation to persuade the council to include the main commuting routes in the change to 20 mph. Eventually the plan is to extend the 20 mph zone across the whole city, if we don't get the key commuting routes included now, they would be part of the city wide version.

 

[MrGrumpy]

doing the same over in Dalgety Bay as well

 

[HJ]

A lot of the villages along the East Neuk already have 20 MPH limits for the whole village, I think Fife are intending to roll it out to all built up area.

 

[Virtual DBP]

why are they making the bay 20mph?

i saw there was something about speed bumps which you had the chance to go online and oppose, but what's the point of changing the speed in the bay?

 

[HLaB]

Pointless fact of the day, Caldercruix of all places has a blanket 20mph speed limit. At the entrance to the village there's a sign saying it was implemented be the Scot Exec (tells you how old it is) and claims to be the first 20mph pilot project in Scotland; other than the sign though I've never heard it mentioned!

 

[Theseus]

All jolly good, but as someone who commutes daily along one of the arterial routes I often find myself passing stationary traffic regardless of the limit.

I don't think traffic speed is an issue as much as training in traffic awareness for cyclists. The number of people I have seen since the clock change with no or poor lights and a total disregard to other road users is more likely to lead them to join the KSI stats than riding along the bus lane while cars pass in the second lane at 30 (dare I suggest some even go faster).

Don't get me wrong, I agree that reducing the collision speeds will lead to less severe injuries but I just have my doubts that this is the answer. Of the crashes you show on your map how many lead to KSI? were all the cars going over 20? was the cyclist behaving like a plonker?

 

[primalgeek]

In principal I agree with the implementation of 20mph zones in Edinburgh. However they would only be useful if enforced (which I have my doubts ithat they will be).

I'd also suggest that the £££ would be better spent elsewhere such as providing compulsory cycle lanes (cars can't enter; doesn't imply that is the only area of the road a bike is allowed); improved road surfacing; enforcement of ASLs; enforcement of 30mph zones; enforcement of bus lanes et al...

 

[asterix]

Could car manufacturers do more to produce cars that are designed to operate at civilized speeds on residential streets?

It's true that dropping down the gears allows this to be done easily enough but only with the feeling that something is not quite right WRT the mechanical stuff and fuel consumption. 20 mph also seems very slow, which of course it is not in such an environment. Maybe it is just a matter of getting used to it?

 

[fimm]

I don't live in the zone, (I'm in Gorgie) and I'm not sure what I think about your point about the arterial routes staying at 30. I'll follow this thread with interest.

 

[HJ]

I don't live in the zone, (I'm in Gorgie) and I'm not sure what I think about your point about the arterial routes staying at 30. I'll follow this thread with interest.

There is a well know connection between speed and accident crash rate in built up areas, where the speed limits have lowered (and enforced) there are far fewer accidents crashes. If you look at maps of where the KSI occur the arterial routes do stand out, so lowering the speed limit on these routes could significantly reduce the rate of KSIs. It also make life more pleasant for people living along these arterial routes, I used to live in the Wardlaws, so I ken just how miserable Gorgie Road can be. The current trial on the Southside, will be taken city wide within a couple of years, so it is important that they get it right.

 

[gavintc]

HJ, You make a very fair point. Having downloaded the map, I had not appreciated just how limited the scope of this trial was planned to be. And yes, if the principle of bus routes being exempt, we can predict that the 30mph limit will apply across the rest of the city. As someone else has commented, that if this scheme is to succeed it needs proper policing. Sadly, the cameras are all on the 30 mph routes, so I suggest that this will bring no real change to driver behaviour.

In principle I support a 20 mph policy across the city centre wth perhaps a very few of the main routes being exempt.

 

[goo_mason]

Unless the limit is enforced with a rod of iron then I don't think many drivers will drive at 20mph. Even if it is enforced for the first few months, it'll slowly be dropped off the list like the green lanes across Edinburgh, double & triple parking on Leith Walk, enforcing a no-alcohol zone in the Kirkgate etc etc etc.


I'd love to see it succeed, but I don't think they'll have the manpower or the will to police it well enough for it to be effective.

 

[MrGrumpy]

why are they making the bay 20mph?

i saw there was something about speed bumps which you had the chance to go online and oppose, but what's the point of changing the speed in the bay?

I think its to do with safer routes to schools. There is alot of emphasis in getting all these lazy asses out of their BMW X5`s etc and clogging up the streets next to the schools. Providing safer access for bikes etc so kids can cycle to school. Both primary schools and the High School are actively encouraging kids to walk or cycle rather than get driven. I`m all for speed limits, but not speed bumps as all that does is wreck your car.

 

[Virtual DBP]

can't see how reducing the speed limit will achieve that... for example, our kids either get the bus or get dropped off on the way to work.

p.s. have to say, i don't see many X5's up at donibristle PS or IHS ...maybe they all go to dalgety bay PS!

 

[HLaB]

can't see how reducing the speed limit will achieve that... for example, our kids either get the bus or get dropped off on the way to work.

p.s. have to say, i don't see many X5's up at donibristle PS or IHS ...maybe they all go to dalgety bay PS!

Its been realised by the Goverment (both Scottish and UK) that the best way to encourage people to cycle is to reduce speeds on existing roads and provide a more pleasant environment; rather than producing new cycle lanes, check out LTN2/08 or Cycling Scotland's hierachy when it comes to road provision.