Educate me on heart rate monitors

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T.M.H.N.E.T

Rainbows aren't just for world champions
Location
Northern Ireland
Good morning,Save your money and ignore heart rate monitoring as it is a fad, it comes from elite level sport where a lot of experienced people work with dedicate pro or semi pro athletes who have rigid training routines and life styles and doesn't apply to "normal" people. ^_^
Many things we can purchase these days come from elite level sport, for that I am very glad. Training with or to HR is not a fad and certainly can and does apply to "normal" people, whatever a normal person is.

If you think I am being disrespectful to the method, look at the typical charts used with heart rate monitors, they have 5 zones, very occasionally 6, yet you can probably tell from Perceived Exertion which of those 5 zones that you are in. When you get into the serious exercise area there are usually 3 zones, again really easy to tell in general and the border cases are just guesses anyway.
The zones are set to "you" they're not generic and they will inevitably change.. It's not uncommon for maximum HR to lower as fitness increases.

If you heart rate is 82% of your max, which zone are you in, especially as you almost certainly won't know you max heart rate down to the last couple of heart beats?
I do, it's zone 4

Even if you are sure, what does it really tell you, do you truly believe that there has been enough research done to be able to say that training at 82% of max heart rate is different from training at 78%?
The difference is easily accounted for by pretty much any possible external factor inc, tiredness, lack of sleep, caffeine intake, stress levels.. The reality is a difference of a handful of BPM.

Then what about those few pints that you had last night that have upped your heart rate by 5 beats per minute, pushing you from one zone into another, do you train lighter because of them?
See above.

A valid training method has been taken and simplified for mass consumption but the result of this simplification is that it is meaningless.
This is not the case

Remember the BMI (body mass index) it is now generally a derided measure? Yet it was a good tool for the job it was supposed to be used for, a guide for people who are obviously overweight.
It was never a good tool for the job, it was just a flawed tool with ridiculous ease of use.
 

T.M.H.N.E.T

Rainbows aren't just for world champions
Location
Northern Ireland
The problem with training to heart rate numbers is that you have to understand what those numbers mean and that is way beyond my education and experience and I'm 57 and have used gyms since I was 13, although we didn't have HRMs that far back.
Most people taking an interest in training to HR generally do ask for advice (this forum) Once you've established your resting HR and your max HR, it's easy enough to stick those numbers into pretty much any zone calculator. *It's also fairly easy to establish both, painful for the latter I concede

I use a gym 5 minutes walk from home which has top of the line Life Fitness treadmills and exercise bikes, on the bikes you can't comfortably avoid the heart rate sensors so I know my heart rate data quite well.
Do you actually though? Gym equipment could quite easily be wildly inaccurate

But and this is a big but the same exercises on the same equipment, not just the same make but the same bike or treadmill produces heart rate readings that vary by as much as 10 bpm between the highest and lowest rates in any short term period.
Hence the importance of repeated use of the same equipment. Example: my HR strap is 6 years old and will be used until it no longer functions.. Wouldn't be surprised if another type/brand read differently in a simultaneous test though.

This is a combination of what I exercise did yesterday, the day before etc, what I ate and drank recently, the temperature in the room, what time of day it is (morning and straight out of bed or loosened up in the evening) and am I annoyed at sitting on the M5 for 2 hours?

Without control and consistency of all of the above and more I am convinced that heart rate is little more than an broad indicator.
I'm not of the belief that an elevated HR really matters when it comes to training anyway. If stress raises mine by 5bpm and I've to hold a wattage that would ordinarly result in an HR of 175 (for example) I'm still in the same zone + or - 5bpm but then I'm not training to HR... I might have had a really rubbish day in work today and be running 15bpm higher, but I've also just ran up the stairs... IMO, you take the value as it comes when training to HR
 

CXRAndy

Guru
Location
Lincs
I'm currently in Tenerife riding. The climbs are 2-3 hours in duration. Having a HRM is invaluable in seeing the level of exertion, then being able to back off a few bpm to save you from blowing up. They are useful and required if you want race in Zwift and not be disqualified from Zwiftpower.
 

JhnBssll

Veteran
Location
Suffolk
I had multiple organ failure including heart failure a couple of years back. I train with a Wahoo tickr without fail. It was more peace of mind than anything to start out with but I now use the data to compare against previous workouts to monitor progress. I can normally tell if I'm getting ill a day or two before symptoms appear if my heart rate is higher than normal on a workout - this isnt useful though, just a bit depressing :laugh:
 
Good morning,

On the subject of my knowledge and asking for advice I was trying to be tactful, I have read enough over a number of years to know what I don't know.

For example if my resting heart rate is normally 55-60 bpm and today it is 72 because I went out for some beers last night; how much should I adjust heart rates per zone, should I adjust zones at all or just have a rest day?

Or would an HRM expert suggest that the beer is having an effect on the muscles involved in the workout, so training at say 150bpm is the same intensity with or without the beer?

Its the same with room temperature and heart rate, in a hotter room where the rider may be sweating more, does the increase in heart rate soly related to keep cool affect the intensity of the exercise, surely not?

Equally if I start a session off with 30 minutes of upper body workout what is the impact of this on a predominantly legs based cycling session?

Nobody can really answer this with anything other that personal experience because no research has been done on this.

On the subject of gym HRMs I certainly agree that they can be all over the place, once even my towel had a heart rate! After using the same equipment for a while I did get to know when it is losing the plot, usually this is only when my hands get sweaty and am confident of the results most of the time.

Although often used in respect of an individual BMI was originally created as population measure and was never intended to be used for an individual, despite its flaws nobody has come up with anything better at population level. Even when used on an individual it is like the 5 a day vegetable recommendation it is often accurate enough to be a hint, clearly it is terrible with a lean body builder.

I notice that a number of people have said an HRM is required for certain programs, then you have no choice you have to use one, but that is required by a third party doesn't mean that it is a good or bad thing.

You can still buy HRMs that recommend that you use 220-age as you max rate, which like BMI is a formula based purely on getting a number that roughly matched average results collected from some real world research.

Bye

Ian
 

Nebulous

Guru
Location
Aberdeen
I started cycling more seriously in 2010 and shortly after that got a polar heartrate strap connected to a watch. It gave me live heartrate, average and maximum for a ride and was a bit of a curiosity. I then got a Garmin with a heartrate strap, which was a bit erratic, prone to dropouts and spikes, but was correlated with height, speed etc to provide me with more data on rides.

Two years ago I got a newer Garmin, with a new chest strap which has cured the dropouts and spikes. I've gradually learned what it does and doesn't do. One thing I have struggled with ever since starting cycling is blowing up on hills. I'm fine with 10-12% or so, but if it ramps up above 14-15% I'm very likely to have to stop. One of the issues with that is if it is a long hill once I have blown it is likely to happen again. Several of the big hills in the North-East of Scotland have defeated me. Oddly they all have an 'easy' side I can do fine and a 'hard' side I struggle with. My real nemesis was the Cairn O' Mount from the Fettercairn side - it had defeated me twice. In the last year or so I have worked out that if I watch my heartrate on the hill and keep it below 155 I can keep going. This year, despite being slightly heavier and not as fit as I've been in the past I climbed the Cairn O' Mount. It wasn't fast, nor pretty, but I made it.

My body is never going to be a finely-honed temple of athletic prowess. I'm too old, work irregular hours, drive too much and am too erratic in the time I spend on the bike. I've a rough idea of my heart-rate zones and do some gym workouts based on heart-rate. I'll do 45 minutes on an exercise bike at a maximum HR of 140 for instance, which sees speed / power tail off slightly towards the end.

So I like gadgets, am happy with the gear I have and have found some real world applications that work for me, but I certainly don't see heart rate monitoring as something I couldn't live without.
 

Aleman

Knees are FUBAR but I don't like to mention it
Location
Blackpool UK
If you followed my earlier link it shows that you determine your zones based on your heart rate reserve, (MHR-RHR), and it doesn't change regardless of what you did the night before.
 

borchgrevink

Senior Member
Also remember that max HR seems to be "different" when doing different sports. Personally i spend pretty much the same amount of time on running and cycling. I never ever reach the same max HR when cycling as compared to running. Often 15 beats off, at least.
 
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Just to say another satisfied Wahoo ticker user here.

Oh and it's even survived a cycle in the washing machine.
 
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