Electric cars

[Red Light]

My big diesel estate gives better performance and economy then the Prius without the electric motor, etc.
Friends who have pure electric cars have better economy and perfermance then the Prius running only on its motor.
I am chosing to go with electric only for the car I am building as I don't want to carry an engine with me to the shops and for visiting friends within a 70 mile radius.

Diesel fuel economy is misleading because fuel is sold by volume. Diesel is much denser than petrol and has a higher energy density.

I don't see how you can compare an electric car economy with a Prius running only on its motor (which motor?) What are the units you are comparing for each?

As for your electric car I suspect the batteries you will use for a 140 mile range will weigh more than the Prius petrol motor. And you will need a much more powerful and therefore much heavier electric motor too unless you are planning on emulating a milk float.

 

[slowmotion]

Are we not all missing the point? Electric cars get their power from the Grid. Hybrids get their's from filling stations, usually fossil fuel. Any energy that propels a hybrid down the road comes from a filling station, and that is fossil fuel.
BTW, "The Delinquent Teenager" was available from Amazon for £12.50 , including postage last week. It's a cracking read so far. The "peer review" stuff is a bit of an eye-opener. Buy a copy.

Essential reading in anybody's Christmas stocking

 

[Red Light]

Are we not all missing the point? Electric cars get their power from the Grid. Hybrids get their's from filling stations, usually fossil fuel. Any energy that propels a hybrid down the road comes from a filling station, and that is fossil fuel.

And the majority of the power generation in the Grid comes from...........?

 

[byegad]

Are we not all missing the point? Electric cars get their power from the Grid. Hybrids get their's from filling stations, usually fossil fuel. Any energy that propels a hybrid down the road comes from a filling station, and that is fossil fuel.

Not always so. A plug-in Hybrid will charge off the mains and only uses the petrol or diesel engine if you exceed a certain speed (62mph/100kph in the case of Toyota.) or get below 30% charge on the batteries. so for short journeys it is an electric car, assuming you do not exceed the 62mph.The early Prius only charged from the i/c engine, newer models will charge from the mains too.

The problem with electric cars is that they are only as fuel efficient as the power station that supplies the electricity less transmission and charging/discharging losses, in the UK, this electricity is not subject to road fuel duties. More than half the cast of other road fuels is tax. Take that tax off road fuels and electricity is not so attractive economically. Even IF we produced all of our electricity from 'green' sources the pollution caused in producing over a ton of metal, plastics and the batteries is still significant over the lifetime of a car and more than an equivalent internal combustion engined car. Making batteries is, at the moment a dirty, nasty pollution causing process as is the disposal of the same batteries at end of service life, the internal combustion engine is much less so. Sadly most of our electricity is produced by burning gas an coal.

 

[alecstilleyedye]

they've already cracked the perfect no-emissions vehicle for short trips around town with a passenger and shopping. they were used in the film bugsy malone…

 

[Red Light]

they've already cracked the perfect no-emissions vehicle for short trips around town with a passenger and shopping. they were used in the film bugsy malone…

It's not zero emissions though. The fuel that powers it has a carbon footprint.

 

[Red Light]

[QUOTE 1634961, member: 45"]For now.......
.[/quote]

Since slowmotion used the present tense, now is what matters. And not now is probably a couple of decades away at least.

 

[smokeysmoo]

Electric cars are not the future IMO, and I work for a manufacturer that makes one. The problem IMO is that the manufacturers have to be seen to be addressing the issues of fossil fuels in order to garner favour with the public at large, and electric is easier, simpler and no doubt less expensive to bring to market than hydrogen is right now.
In all honesty though I think it's futile due to the costs of these cars. They all seem to be around the £25 - £30k mark, and even with the £5k government subsidy it's a hell of a lot of money for a car to use for shopping runs!
I know new car parks are getting charging bays, and old ones will no doubt get converted bays over time, but honestly it all just seems to be such a faff! Wireless charging would solve a lot of issues, but imagine the disruption of installing it along our road network! Plus with constant charging the batteries would probably not even last the proposed 5 years.
I remember seeing a 6 month old MK1 Prius in a garage a few years ago, for some reason the batteries had gone flat, and you couldn't externally charge them, and you couldn't jump start the car as it would have apparently caused all sorts of internal damage, so it was sat there written off! A new bank of cells was quoted at around £7k but the batteries weren't even available to buy then, (not sure about now).
I believe Nissan won't even quote an estimated battery life for their Nissan Leaf, there's confidence for you!
Don't get me wrong, I do think they have a place, but that place is as congestion charge exempt vehicles to hire in and around city centres and the like, it's not sat on Mr & Mrs Musthaveone's drive in central suburbia.

 

[Red Light]

[QUOTE 1635678, member: 45"]Well no, it isn't. And even if it were, we're no worse off.[/quote]

Show me how you would do it then using DECC's modeller
http://2050-calculator-tool.decc.gov.uk

 

[mikeitup]

Electric Cars were leased to people in the US in the 1990's. They were quite popular but due to intervention from the heads of the oil companies putting pressure on the senate. they all had to be returned and were all scrapped. They posed a threat to the multi-billion dollar oil industry. Shame really and let's be honest if they really wanted us all to buy one, why would they be so expensive?

http://www.whokilledtheelectriccar.com/

 

[Red Light]

[QUOTE 1635728, member: 45"]Do what?

Edit - I think you missed my bold. It's this fancy forum font.[/quote]

In which case you may be having your own private conversation but in the post of slowmotion the present tense referring to now not the future was used and that is what my reply addressed. You may wish it was about the future but it wasn't. Sorry.

 

[slowmotion]

Why don't we all just step back for a second and consider a "zero carbon future". Leaving aside any doubts about it, if you have any, this diagram , second page, is a bit of a jaw-dropper, isn't it????

http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/11/stats/publications/flow-chart/2276-energy-flow-chart-2010.pdf

(Thirty years ago, I used to study the Digest of UK Energy statistics quite a bit. Don't ask why.)

Anyway, here is last year's version. On the left is the raw, primary energy that is imported into the system. On the right is where it is finally consumed. Various losses in the process point out in other directions.

Suppose you want to wean the transport sector off petroleum and into electric vehicles. That means increasing electricity generation by a fair bit, judging by the width of the petroleum input, even if electric vehicles become more efficient than current fossil fuelled ones.

Now suppose you want to supply the buildings of the UK with "zero carbon" energy. That means cutting off all the electricity generated by fossil fuels that is currently used in buildings, and finding a "zero carbon" alternative. It also means shutting off the gas supply that heats an awful lot of us, judging by the width of the band on the right of the chart, and replacing it with " zero carbon" electricity.

Yes, increased energy efficiency in all sectors would help a lot, but the fact still remains that a "zero carbon" future will require a simply massive increase in electricity production.

Now look at the left hand side of the chart and see what "renewables" are currently providing. Mr Huhne's massive expansion of wind power won't even dent the problem .

IMHO.

 

[snailracer]

And the majority of the power generation in the Grid comes from...........?

It is possible to charge one's electric car with carbon-neutral renewables by signing up with the "green" tariffs. Probably not enough of that for everyone - yet.

 

[User482]

Maybe because I've had mine some time and driven it a fair few miles over that time so have a lot of experience of driving it across a wide range of situations rather than yours being one they've got at work?

Admittedly, I have only driven it countless times over a 7 year period.

 

[Red Light]

It is possible to charge one's electric car with carbon-neutral renewables by signing up with the "green" tariffs. Probably not enough of that for everyone - yet.

You really believe that ?