Ellis Briggs and MKM bikes (Buying vintage frames in general)

[Leslie]

Hi all,

Instead of buying an 'off the shelf' fixie/single speed, I am planning to buy a vintage road frame to convert into a single/fixie (flip flop hub) which I think may be more interesting and ending up with a more unique result. However, i want to know some of your opinions:-

-Seen options for Ellis Briggs and MKM vintage frames (horizontal dropouts) - Has anyone got experience/opinions on these?

-Is it simple to fit a flip flop hub rear wheel (say 120mm) to a frame that has rear OLD dimension of 126mm or does it have to match 120mm (without having to bend the frame!)



Thanks!

 

[Chris S]

-Is it simple to fit a flip flop hub rear wheel (say 120mm) to a frame that has rear OLD dimension of 126mm or does it have to match 120mm (without having to bend the frame!)

6mm is about the width of two axle washers. Just put one in on either side.

 

[All uphill]

I have done this a couple of times, and it can work well. You will encounter snags but there are work-around. People here will be able to advise you.

To me there two big considerations:

Are you messing up a lovely old bike?

Are prepared for the cost? It is very easy to spend £400 making a £100 bike. That may not matter to you.

If you can comfortably answer the two questions and have the time, go for it!

 

[biggs682]

Welcome @Leslie yes getting a rear wheel with the same oln as the frame makes it easier , but you might need to change bottom bracket axle length and or re dish the wheel .
Any steel frame will do .
If you are interested I have a fixed gear 1950's Did Mottram to sell

 

[Leslie]

Thanks Chris! > That makes it a bit simpler with more options! (this is my first time building a bike from scratch but have had experience in fixing small bits and bobs on my bike...)

@All uphill! > Totally agree! I have asked myself these too! I do have the time (thanks to lockdown!) and I have a daily bike that i ride about so just want to dive into doing a fun project on the weekends....


@biggs682 >>> totally interested - do you have a link to an advert/website or just some photos and spec measurements?

 

[Leslie]

@biggs682 Seen your thread! looks like it has a real story! Sadly I'm based in London! ....

 

[biggs682]

@biggs682 Seen your thread! looks like it has a real story! Sadly I'm based in London! ....

Only just over the hour away

 

[Leslie]

Yes but I have no car. (I'm guessing you don't do the hassle of delivery! )..I am currently shopping around for frames...

 

[goldcoastjon]

Leslie-

Good advice offered so far. I urge you to:

1) preserve the original condition (dropouts, rear derailleur hangers, braze-ons, cable guides, paint) and parts for your road frame in case you or a future owner want to reverse the process. (Many of us cry when we see rear derailleur hangers, TT cable guides, or or rear dropouts chopped off or replaced on irreplaceable vintage steel frames.)

2) Replace track-length rear axles (usually 120mm) with longer ones to match the current OLN clearances on your frame, if need be. It's cheaper and more easily reversible than altering a steel frame's rear end, which can only be done *successfully* a time or two, even when done by a professional frame builder, who should always do such work.

3) Maintain your normal road positioning on any bike designed for road use: if you are riding in any traffic at all, an extreme forward aero track position will make seeing other vehicles, obstacles, and pedestrians much harder.

4) Personally, I'd go with a single-speed freewheel rather than a fixed-gear in the rear, which accommodates using two brakes (always safer in traffic) and does not limit your downhill speed like a fixed-gear. Gear it low so you have to maintain a higher cadence (spin rate), which is a major reason for riding a "fixie" or single-speed in the first place.

Have fun!

Jon

 

[RichardB]

Are prepared for the cost? It is very easy to spend £400 making a £100 bike. That may not matter to you.

This, many times over. I have just finished building a nice steel lightweight frame into a basic 5-speed road bike, and I dread to think how much it has cost me, compared to buying a complete s/h bike or even walking into a bike shop and buying a new one. And I was using the cheapest parts possible. To anyone other than me, it is worth buttons, of course. But I enjoyed the process and learned a lot on the way, so it's all good.

The other point is that it's actually harder than it looks. Like you, I have done a lot of maintenance and repair on bikes and thought I knew my way around, but I was always working on an existing setup that worked, usually as it came from the factory. BB length, rear wheel dish, rear axle length, derailleur capacity, chainline, all were worked out by someone else and built into a complete working bike. If you start with a frame, you have to work all this out for yourself, and it needs a fair bit of research. You could end up spending a lot of money in trial and error. I would recommend the Sheldon Brown website as a starting point, and there is a lot of expertise on this forum. My original plan was for a flip-flop fixie/singlespeed, but in the end I caved in and went for a simple geared setup. My frame has 130 mm OLD and it's near impossible to buy a wheel with a flip-flop hub in that size (I can't afford to have one custom built). I didn't want to cold set the frame (too nice and I wanted it to stay fairly original) and all the other options for getting a good chainline were bodges to some extent.

You can buy a flip-flop fixie/singlespeed on eBay for under £200 brand new. It won't be great quality I would imagine, but if your urge for a fixie is just an itch, it might be worth trying that first. It will be cheaper than making your own, I guarantee it. I may well get myself on of these in the New Year as a present to myself, and get my fixie fix that way.

Also, as someone who grew up in Yorkshire, an Ellis-Briggs frame was the height of my adolescent fantasies. They are very, very good road and touring frames and rightly make a lot of money in good condition. The thought of anyone chopping one around to make something different makes me want to weep. You wouldn't buy a classic Jag with an idea of turning into an off-roader

Have a good think before committing yourself.

 

[Gunk]

I’ve built two bikes up this year from a bare frame and both ended up being completely uneconomical, my advice would be to buy a good complete bike, convert it to single speed and store all the original parts.