Endurance gravel / CX bike - reach and stack

Discussion in 'Bikes and Buying Advice - What Bike?' started by pclay, 30 Jan 2018.

  1. Milkfloat

    Milkfloat Veteran

    Location:
    Warwick
    Going back to the reach/stack question - these you can have short or long head tubes and still have the same stack as other aspects of the geometry come into play, such as fork axle to crown.

    stackandreach.gif

    If it were my money before splashing the cash on a new bike, I would try different stem angles/lengths - you may be able to fix your problem for £15.
     
  2. Sea of vapours

    Sea of vapours Über Member

    And if you're going to see what stem you'd need to match your preferred position on the CX bike, this is very useful:
    http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php
     
    John_S, Milkfloat and pclay like this.
  3. John_S

    John_S Senior Member

    Hi pcclay,

    There's already lots of advice on trying to sort out your position and comfort on your current bike.

    However if you try that and it doesn't work have you considered any of the Kona or Fairlight bikes?

    I have a Genesis Day One 2014 model and although I've persisted with it to get sort of comfortable on it unfortaunately I can't get it just right for me because of the geometry. I've tried to find the reach and stack measurements for my frame but try as I might I can't find them online now and even the Genesis catalogue doesn't list them.

    http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/img/uploads/files/genesis_cat2014_web.pdf

    It did however state that for my 56cm frame is the headtube length is 150cm. Anyway with this bike, which also has a seat tube angle of 74 degrees, I've never been able to get really comfortable for long distance rides because I'm too stretched out and there's a drop to the bars (which I have worked to minimise as much as possible). I do find some of the Genesis geometry decisions a bit interesting and contrary to other manufacturers. Take for example the seat tune angle which for my 2014 model was the same 74 degrees for all of the frames from 52 to 60 cm. You can find the stack and reach for the 2015 model and it must have changed a bit because they slackended the aggressive 74 degree seat angle ever so slightly and the 2015 geometry for the Day One was:-
    2015 Genesis Day One Alfine 2015
    Reach: 383 mm (or for the 58cm frame it was 391 mm)
    Stack: 596 mm (or for the 58cm frame it was 619 mm)
    Head Tube: 175 mm (or for the 58cm frame it was 195 mm)
    ST Angle: 73 (or for the 58cm frame it was 73)

    So for the purpose of this comparison the Genesis Day One bike is at least similar in geometry to your CX bike.

    Anyway since having the Genesis I subsequently got a 2016 Kona Roadhouse which has for my 56cm frame:-

    Reach: 388 mm (or for the 58cm frame it was 396 mm)
    Stack: 578 mm (or for the 58cm frame it was 593 mm)
    Head Tube: 145 mm (or for the 58cm frame it was 160 mm)
    ST Angle: 73.5 (or for the 58cm frame it was 73)

    So again for comparison to your bikes the Kona Roadhouse (apart from a shorter HT length) is much more similar to your Cannodale Synapse.

    For me personally I've been much more comfortable on this Kona than I ever have been on the Genesis. Admitadly it's a completely subjective thing and horses for courses and so for example some people who race might not like my Kona because they want a more aggressive, more strteched out, lower and aero position than I do.

    This is the Roadhouse that I got and I was really lucky because I got this 2016 model at a big discount when the 2017 one (which had a big price increase) had been released:-
    http://road.cc/content/review/182237-kona-roadhouse

    View: https://youtu.be/ltLN1bOXS10


    Therefore you could look at something from either the 2017, if you can find a reduced bargain, ( http://2017.konaworld.com/bikes.cfm ) or 2018 ( http://www.konaworld.com/bikes.cfm ) Kona range.

    2018 Kona Wheelhouse 58 cm
    Reach: 391 mm
    Stack: 620 mm
    Head Tube: 195 mm
    ST Angle: 72.5

    2017 Kona Wheelhouse 58 cm
    Reach: 391 mm
    Stack: 619 mm
    Head Tube: 195 mm
    ST Angle: 72.5

    2018 Kona Rove NRB 58 cm
    Reach: 400 mm
    Stack: 630 mm
    Head Tube: 207.7 mm
    ST Angle: 72.5

    2018 Kona Rove ST 58 cm
    Reach: 400 mm
    Stack: 630 mm
    Head Tube: 189 mm
    ST Angle: 72.5

    2017 Kona Rove ST 57 cm
    Reach: 392 mm (or for the 59cm frame it's 398 mm)
    Stack: 603 mm (or for the 58cm frame it was 622 mm)
    Head Tube: 160 mm (or for the 58cm frame it was 180 mm)
    ST Angle: 73 (or for the 58cm frame it was 72.5)

    2018 Kona Sutra Ltd 58 cm
    Reach: 395 mm
    Stack: 640 mm
    Head Tube: 191 mm
    ST Angle: 72

    2017 Kona Sutra Ltd 58 cm
    Reach: 395 mm
    Stack: 640 mm
    Head Tube: 191 mm
    ST Angle: 72


    For another option have you looked at British company Fairlight Cycles?

    They do proportionaly geometry which you can learn about on their website but essentially to accomodate different body shapes and riding charactristics/ geometry preferences they do a Regular and then also a Tall version of each frame size:-

    https://fairlightcycles.com/why-fairlight/fit-function-form/?v=79cba1185463

    Proportional Geometry Video:-
    https://fairlightcycles.com/?v=79cba1185463

    Fairlight do a rather georgeous looking all season all road bike called the Strael and this was the bike on which last years TCR winner James Hayden rode ( http://road.cc/content/tech-news/22...ce-2017-winner-james-haydens-fairlight-strael ).

    Strael 58cm Regular
    Reach: 402 mm
    Stack: 583 mm
    Head Tube: 160 mm
    ST Angle: 73

    Strael 58cm Tall
    Reach: 389 mm
    Stack: 619 mm
    Head Tube: 200 mm
    ST Angle: 73.5

    Looking at the above the Strael 58 cm Tall is pretty similar to your Cannondale Synapse figures.

    However if you're after more of a bike that has greater flexibiluty (tyre size etc.) then you could look at their Faran adventure bike the Faran:-

    Faran 58cm Regular
    Reach: 400 mm
    Stack: 587 mm
    Head Tube: 151 mm
    ST Angle: 73

    Faran 58cm Tall
    Reach: 385 mm
    Stack: 624 mm
    Head Tube: 191 mm
    ST Angle: 73

    Enjoy your search for a new bike and good luck finding the right one for you!

    John
     
  4. John_S

    John_S Senior Member

    Hi pcclay,

    I also meant to ask what are your intended uses for the bike?

    If you've got a CX bike at the moment is its primary use off road for either pleasure or CX races? Or is it used for a mix of on road an off road with the requirements for a CX, endurance, gravel type bike (or whatever we're calling it this week) being the type of bike that you're after from the perspective of it being a flexible bike for multiple terrain with the inclusion of braze ons & mounting points etc. for mudguards & racks etc..

    I saw that you're after a bike which can take 35-40mm tyres and although some of the bikes I mentioned can take tyres of that size (e.g. the Kona Sutra Ltd comes with 700x50c, the Kona Rove St comes with 700x36c and the Fairlight Faran comes with 700X35C) however some of the others come with slightly narrower tyres as a stock finish but I don't know what the maximum widths are for the frame.

    However based upon what the bikes intended uses are if for example there is a split between road and off road (plus how extreme is the off road that you ride?) with the road use being 50% or more then I wondered if the following was a potential option? If you go for one of the frame options that doesn't offer the widest of clearances for 700c tyres could you have a spare 650b wheelset for when you're doing your off-road riding?

    For example when doing road rides you use something like a 700x28c, 700x30c or 700x32c tyre. Then when you're doing your off road riding you swap for some 650b wheels with wider tyres. I'll admit that this is purely a theory and I am by no means an expert at all and so if this was a potential solution that appealed then you'd need to check it out with someone much more knowledgeable than me to see what size 650b wheel and tyre combinations can fit into a particular frame which normally comes with 700c wheels.

    Just as an example on this subject if you take the Mason Bokeh the same frame and fork combination is offered in both 700c and 650b builds. The Mason Bokeh comes with either 700C x 35mm or 650B x 50mm tyres.
    https://masoncycles.cc/shop/categories/bokeh-bikes

    Some more background info on 650b if this is of interest.

    http://road.cc/content/feature/171905-650b-alternative-smaller-wheel-size-right-you


    View: https://youtu.be/xlyuWSrbGyk



    View: https://youtu.be/aYY7fGpnecE


    Also there are now some bikes being offered with 650b wheels as the stock option such as some of the builds in the Kona Rove range just as an example:-

    http://road.cc/content/tech-news/22...rove-adventure-bike-choice-steel-or-aluminium


    In the first instance hopefully you can get your current bike to fit but if you can't hopefully there are some options out there to fit your geometry and tyre size requirements.

    John
     
  5. Nibor

    Nibor Über Member

    Location:
    Accrington
    Last years (Mine) was QR
     
  6. John_S

    John_S Senior Member

    Hi again,

    Just in case you do get to a point whereby you've tried all of the adjustments to your current CX bike and you still want to get a new one here are a couple of other options. I looked a few others but the reach, stack and headtube were closer to your CX than your Synapse.

    Orro Terra for size Extra Large which is a 58.8 cm frame
    https://www.orrobikes.com/bikes/road/terra-gravel-road
    Reach 407.3 mm
    Stack 637.40 mm
    Head tube length 225 mm

    Some of the bikes from Bombtrack might work for you:-
    http://bombtrack.com/bikes/

    Bombtrack Hook AL (but there are several different build options for the Hook model) for size XL which is a 59 cm frame:-
    Reach 403 mm
    Stack 600 mm
    Head tube length 179 mm

    Sonder Camino for a size Large
    https://www.alpkit.com/sonder/bikes/sonder-camino-al-sram-apex1-mechanical
    Reach 397 mm (or for the X-Large 399)
    Stack 605 mm (or for the X-Large 624)
    Head tube length 170 mm (or for the X-Large 190)

    Or if you do more of your riding on the road (and you have deep enough pockets) then maybe you could consider Titanium and the Spa Cycles Elan which might be worth a look if you're anywhere near Harrogate.

    https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p3553/SPA-CYCLES-Elan-(105-11-Speed-Hydraulic)

    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/...duct/spa-cycles-elan-ti-ultegra-review-50955/

    John
     
  7. John_S

    John_S Senior Member

    I just saw another potential bike to consider (apologies if this has already been mentioned) which is the:-

    Kinesis Tripster AT for a size 57cm
    https://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/Catalogue/Models/Adventure/Tripster-AT
    Reach 385.6 mm (or for the 60 cm frame 392.8 mm)
    Stack 603 mm (or for the 60 cm frame 628.7 mm)
    Head Tube Length 185 mm (or for the 60 cm frame 210 mm)

    http://road.cc/content/review/226602-kinesis-tripster-frameset-2017

    https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/revi...set-build-kit-review.html#PsiKdzBdeQYj2ixD.97

    http://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/3715/kinesis-tripster-at-review

    https://grit.cx/news/2017/08/reviewed-kinesis-tripster-at

    http://www.cyclingweekly.com/editors-choice/kinesis-tripster-at-361733

    Or the Marin Gestalt 2 for a size 58cm (although this only comes with 700x30c tyres but I'm not sure the max the frame can take):-
    https://www.marinbikes.com/gb/bike-archive/bikes/2017-gestalt-2
    Reach 396 mm
    Stack 618.3 mm
    Head Tube Length: 190 mm

    http://off.road.cc/content/review/bikes/marin-gestalt-2-822
     
  8. John_S

    John_S Senior Member

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