Engine Displacement.

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figbat

Slippery scientist
Would that have been an N52 - the last of the naturally aspirated 6s..? I very much fancy a Z4 with one of these in.. not sure if you're aware but it controls air intake to the engine by controlling valve lift and duration rather than using a throttle; which seems to bring economy benefits. How did you find yours on fuel?

As a configuration the straight 6 is arguably unexciting but ticks a lot of technical boxes such as its intrinsically balanced nature.

Yes, it was the N52 and yes, I knew about the inlet air control. It was a driver’s engine - smooth, linear, revvy, responsive and in the E87 5-door hatch was a real sleeper car.

It would return 40 mpg over general driving.
 

wafter

I like steel bikes and I cannot lie..
Location
Oxford
Yes, it was the N52 and yes, I knew about the inlet air control. It was a driver’s engine - smooth, linear, revvy, responsive and in the E87 5-door hatch was a real sleeper car.

It would return 40 mpg over general driving.

Thanks - that's some impressive economy; I don't get much more out of my civic! A few niggles aside I generally only hear good things about these engines.

I'd not really considered the 1-series as I struggle with the "breadvan" shape, although the coupe (E82..?) looks nice and I see they did it with the N52 before the F-series got the turbo'd efforts. There don't seem to be many about however and unsurprisingly they seem to hold their value..
 
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buzz22

Über Member
One of the things that has improved is the oil used; this has done a lot in improving the longevity of engines.

Agreed, one component of the overall picture is the viscosity of oil in modern cars is so much lower and contributes to reducing friction.
My wife's 2015 Honda Jazz (1.5 litre) uses 0w-20 synthetic oil, my large 2001 Holden Commodore wagon (3.8 litre V6) uses 10w-40. Previous older cars used up to 20w-50.
I think a lot of the valve management systems (Honda's Vtec for example) rely on the oil to assist in changing valve profiles which helps with their economy.
 

Gunk

Guru
Location
Oxford
I have always been a lover of larger capacity 6 pot engines, my love affair really kicked off with a couple of Golf VR6’s as company cars back in the 1990’s, then a 1996 E36 328i touring, a Mercedes C280 estate and more recently a run of 3.0 BMW 3 series tourings, (E46, E91, F31) the last one, a 2017 F31 330d touring was an astonishing car, probably the best engine BMW make.

I have also been fortunate to have owned a couple of 911’s. and an air cooled big capacity 6 screaming in a tunnel must be one of life’s greatest sounds!

I also love a big capacity Diesel in a small car, our 2015 Golf GTD feels like a small BMW 535i, loads of torque and effortless power. We also have a Mini Cooper with the PSA 1.6 petrol engine and although very smooth and pleasant to drive, it lacks the grunt of the Golf.
 
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Gunk

Guru
Location
Oxford
I’ve got motorbikes for that need… there really is nothing quite so nice as too much power.

very true, once you have one of these, every car feels slow!

IMG_2677.jpeg
 

Gunk

Guru
Location
Oxford
I felt the same about my V-Max at the timr, but sub 10 second electric cars, while not exactly common, aren't a rarity round these parts.

My pal (who lives quite close to you) has a BMW i3 and the acceleration is astonishing but in a very odd way, it’s just fast, there’s no drama.
 

Electric_Andy

Heavy Metal Fan
Location
Plymouth
My ex had a Clio which was iirc a 0.9L turbo that made 88bhp. Not too shabby. Yet when you think, there are lots of ~900cc motorcycles that make more power than that. My 2.0 Diesel is my preferred drive, as you can literally idle along in 4th on the flat and it's showing 70mpg+ on the dash.
 
OP
OP
T

Time Waster

Veteran
I’m reading this from my comfy chair here in North America… there’s a 263hp, 3.5 litre V6 in the drive that’s considered a relatively small engine. Ford doesn’t sell cars over here, just trucks, except the Mustang. The biggest selling vehicle in the US of A is the F-150 pick up.

what a screwed up place.

There was a dodge truck driver near where I used to work. I was about to back out of a parking spot at the end of a row so I could see all down the row of parked cars. My wing mirrors were filled with the dodge truck so I couldn't even see in the cab, from way back! I was in a vauxhall vivaro van so not exactly low down. It was huge! As big as a hummer h1 it looked to me.

Americans and their trucks, it's crazy!

No idea what the dodge truck was but it's certainly a lot bigger than any other UK driven pickup. Makes the Ford ranger a mate had look small, they replaced the ford after engine went bang with an Isuzu dmax for better reliability and pulling power (farmers for you, actually need the thing).

Love Americans. Once had my eyes opened up by a Texan's understanding of gun control! :laugh:
 

Drago

Legendary Member
My ex had a Clio which was iirc a 0.9L turbo that made 88bhp. Not too shabby. Yet when you think, there are lots of ~900cc motorcycles that make more power than that. My 2.0 Diesel is my preferred drive, as you can literally idle along in 4th on the flat and it's showing 70mpg+ on the dash.

They make the power, but nowhere near the torque of the car motor, and rev a lot higher while doing so. That's why big bikes are often no more economical than cars.

The 0.9 Renault motor went ok but had a horrible light-switch power delivery that made getting a smooth drive tricky. The enlarged 1.0 is a good improvement.
 

Jameshow

Veteran
I have always been a lover of larger capacity 6 pot engines, my love affair really kicked off with a couple of Golf VR6’s as company cars back in the 1990’s, then a 1996 E36 328i touring, a Mercedes C280 estate and more recently a run of 3.0 BMW 3 series tourings, (E46, E91, F31) the last one, a 2017 F31 330d touring was an astonishing car, probably the best engine BMW make.

I have also been fortunate to have owned a couple of 911’s. and an air cooled big capacity 6 screaming in a tunnel must be one of life’s greatest sounds!

I also love a big capacity Diesel in a small car, our 2015 Golf GTD feels like a small BMW 535i, loads of torque and effortless power. We also have a Mini Cooper with the PSA 1.6 petrol engine and although very smooth and pleasant to drive, it lacks the grunt of the Golf.

Try a r53 cooper s that was fun!!
 

Fab Foodie

hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
Location
Kirton, Devon.
Not the world's most knowledgeable about the mechanics, engineering or physics of the ICE, but have had a lot of experience driving loads of different cars and have some other random/useless thoughts on the topic from a lifetime of driving low powered vehicles!

Recently we had a long term hire car, a 1L Dacia Jogger. On the whole in general usage it was smooth, quiet, nippy enough and frugal. Where it lacked was pulling-power up steep hills requiring much stick stirring, and when fully loaded - 4 adults + 2 dogs for example. As we live in deepest Devon, hills are an issue, but you get used to it. When 4 up and there are hills that's more of an issue. Would I consider one? Depends - answer later....

We recently had a 2L Diesel VW Camper which we bought in a moment of madness/love to pull a 1.5 tonne caravan. Test driving the VW along flat roads it seemed pretty zippy considering all the camping gubbins and pop-top roof etc. It was only later on hills we realised that judicious use of gears and revs was required and the fuel consumption fell of a cliff. It was then we realised that whilst 2L it was only 102HP! Pulling the caravan up a long motorway drag was a slow process where we'd regularly be overtaken by trucks. So we were about to get it remapped to 130HP when on a long slow drag uphill drag at night when fully loaded som inattentive idiot hadn't noticed we were doing 50mph on the inside lane rather than 70 and drove into the back of me writing-off our beautiful van in the process :-(. We then looked at a 150HP auto replacement.

Over the years we have had a number of large motorhomes with 110, 130, 150 and 160hp engines and what I've noticed is that you don't seem to notice the power increases as much as you'd expect, part of that is because bigger engines 'tend' engines to be found in bigger heavier vans/Autos AND, even at equal weight, power is very quickly offset by Aerodynamics (which as cyclists we should appreciate).

Most will be familiar with my daily runabout - my 13 year old nearly 100k miles Citroen C1. It surprises people that I regularly travel long distances especially on Motorways with it's little 900cc 3 cylinder engine. I usually travel alone, and the C1 weighs bugger all. It's skinny wheeled and a blob- shaped so fairly aerodynamic. Apart from some very steep hills it powers along well with the beautifully turbine smooth 3 cylinder Toyota engine spinning away. On the motorway on fairly flattish roads it will zoom along at 80mph very happily and give almost 50 mpg. Acceleration off the lights is initially OK but then soon gets left behind, but roll-ons on the motorway over 60mph to 80 when the engines spinning surprises bigger cars!

On the Specifics of 1L Dacia Duster, my thoughts are that unless I was using it as a run-around I'd be a tad wary. We've had 2 Dusters, the first a 1.6 Petrol which couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding and had terrible fuel economy to boot, and the 1.5 Diesel which works perfectly and gives excellent MPG 45 to 50+ in general use Whilst the Duster is fairly light by small SUV standards it has fat trendy tyres and the aerodynamics of a brick and at higher speeds an longer journeys that has an impact. With the Diesels torque however it is very good when loaded-up.

This is a long ramble to make a couple of points.
Whilst big lazy low-stressed engines are fine and long-lived, they are heavy and inefficient as @wafter eloquently explains. Smaller cheaper, lighter, free-spinning low capacity engines are smooth, efficient and on the whole sufficiently powerful for most people and most usages. So it boils down to horses for courses!
Small modern 1L 3Cyl engines are brill for most peoples car-usage with a couple of caveats!
  • If it's mostly one/two people driving i.e not regularly 4 people and 2 dogs or a boot-ful of kiddy crap etc
  • If the base car itself is relatively light
  • If most of your driving is over relatively flatter terrain
  • If most of your driving is Urban/A-roads
  • If the vehicle itself has a reasonable aerodynamic shape and skinnier tyres
  • If you're not regularly driving around with a roof-box/bike racks
  • If you're not a wannabe Carlos Fandango!
Going back to whether I would purchase a 1L Jogger? If we didn't need to pull a caravan, probably yes. Mostly it's 1 person + 2 dogs or 2 person and 2 dogs so not a lot of added weight. We're quite used to low powered vehicles so a bit of stick-stirring and patience is in our elderly DNA. It suited our other needs and would be cheap to buy, insure and run.

In the end we didn't go for the 150HP VW auto camper either, partly because of the recent interest rate hikes, partly because of the stupidly increasing Insurance costs for VW campers and the 150HP while great for pulling the Caravan gave worse day to day fuel economy than our 102HP version. As it was to be Wimpers run-around, that would be a notable extra cost.

In the end we bought a 4 year-old diesel 150HP Auto low mileage Ford Galaxy! Something that wasn't anywhere on our radar! It was just sat there in the dealers when we chanced-by it. After a test-drive we bought it! In this instance with Caravanning future it was simply the right horse for our course. Heavy enough to pull the van, powerful enough to pull the van with a smooth 7 speed auto-box. Not too bad aerodynamically for a big car and for general pootling around 40 to 45 MPG (if I drive it anyhow).

That's a long waffle to state that I think small performance engines are great, BUT depending in what vehicle (weight, shape) and how you intend to use that car (weight, terrain, journey type).

Small is beautiful....
 
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