English grammar?

[Stephenite]

I promised my Vietnamese landlord a long time ago that i would help him go through the preparatory text given out on the eve of his English exam. He's coming round this evening. The thing is I know bugger all about sentence structure and whatnot. I speak and write english instinctively, (before anyone else says it, without thinking ) and haven't thought about grammar since my O levels. Even back then (1980's) IIRC there was little emphasis placed on it in English Language classes. He's gonna think i'm a right numpty!

I'm not even 100% i've spelt 'grammar' right tbh!

Is there anyone in the forum that would feel comfortable helping him, or any non-english speaker, with english grammar?

 

[numbnuts]

The thing is I know bugger all about sentence structure and whatnot

He doesn’t either so teach him anything you like

 

[Globalti]

When I was English Assistant in a Poly in Spain (employed by Opus Dei - tee hee!) I used to just tell my students that English has no logic and I can't explain, that's just the way it is. That used to stop them asking awkward questions I couldn't answer.

 

[joolsybools]

Try this http://esl.about.com/od/beginningenglish/ig/Basic-English/ or this http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/words/grammar/

 

[Arch]

Any idea what form the exam takes? Is it a comprehension type thing - where questions are asked to find out if the person understands the meaning of the piece, or a grammatical analysis, where they are finding if the person understands or recognises the grammical rules seen within it?

I like to think I've got a good practical working understanding of English grammar, what's right and what's wrong, although I don't really know my subjunctives from my participles - I think we were in the same schol generation in those terms, Stephanite. The trouble is we grow up learning our first languages in bits and pieces by total immersion, unlike when we come to learn, say, French, at school, and have rules drummed into us (and often forget the lot). I might just manage a simple comprehension test in French, but I'd be terribly rusty at the tenses and so on.

I've wondered if a TEFL qualification would be a useful thing to get. But at the moment, I feel I could confidently tell someone what was right or wrong*, but without knowing quite why.

*wrongness of course being in the eye of the beholder sometimes - a foreign language speaker taught utterly correct English would stand out a mile in most places.

 

[Campfire]

If he is already going to English classes, they will be teaching him grammar. If anyone else steps in, it could be confusing to him. How well does he speak English, enough to put together a sentence reasonably? There are books on English as a foreign language in shops like Blackwell. Maybe you could help him use the book - you will probably learn a bit about grammar yourself doing so.

I was taught grammar many years ago but became a lot more conscious of it when I started to teach myself another language about 10 years ago. (other than French I did at school)

 

[swee'pea99]

I read somewhere recently that you can avoid making one basic grammatical error by remembering the saying: 'Rugby is a game played by men with oddly shaped balls.' Don't know what the rule is, but I'm sure that will be helpful to your landlord.

Oh, and be sure to tell him that these days it's considered perfectly acceptable to split infinitives - indeed, it's to be encouraged since it serves to really aggravate pedants.

 

[Stephenite]

Thanks for the suggestions.

He isnt going to classes. He's taking a 'general study competence' exam which is what you do in Norway for two years and, depending upon the grades of around eight subjects, this then dictates which further or higher courses are available to you. He hasn't gone to any classes - just bought the text books and payed for the exams. He speaks english okish. Slowly and struggles with pronunciation. We communicate in a third language.

I'm not sure of the nature of the exam. - Just had a look - Typical comprehension exercise. THats the part i'm helping him with. Its actually a Boris Johnson blog!! BJ is enraged that poetry is not taught by rote in schools these days!! Should go ok actually. The more techy syntax stuff he should have learnt from the textbooks and is a dfferent part of the exam.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

[quote name='swee'pea99']
Oh, and be sure to tell him that these days it's considered perfectly acceptable to split infinitives - indeed, it's to be encouraged since it serves to really aggravate pedants.[/QUOTE]

The split infinitives thing was made up in the 1800s by people whose train of thought went something like: "Hmmm. You can't split an infinitive in Latin - the noblest of all languages - so there should be a rule saying you can't in English. Here, I've already written one." The same goes for ending a sentence with a preposition. And using "and" at the start of a sentence. All completely arbitrary rules invented by the language equivalents of "doctor" Gillian McKeith.

 

[Stephenite]

Just spotted a part of the 'preparation' which deserves a new thread. Its not grammar related.

RT you've completely lost me. I can split a kipper tho!

 

[Tony]

Got a degree in it if you want a hand....