English Rugby Union, what needs to come next?

[Wafer]

I don't know how RU fans feel about pathways & structure in RU land, but you are certainly on the right track with the M62 corridor comment, it is highly unlikely that many schools or colleges in the NW give RU even a seconds thought, maybe Leeds is one example where they run along o.k.

Not involved enough to really know but down here there are loads of clubs around with lots of very active junior & senior setups. Went out for lunch with some friends recently but first met them at a junior rugby ground as their son had expressed an interest in rugby and one of his mates was playing in some event with 2 other clubs. Hundreds of kids from 5/6 up to about 15/16 I'd guess. One of the clubs was Exeter Chiefs youth section and no doubt they've become popular due to the Chiefs rise but the other clubs were certainly not playing 2nd fiddle and these events happen pretty much every week from the sound of it!

I don't think state schools are that involved, but there are particular colleges and uni's kids want to go to if they want route 1 to professional rugby. Rugby Union is probably the main sport at club level round here as well though. Yeah there's a lot of football and cricket but I'd take a guess and say rugby is bigger, certainly in some towns round me, so a lot of player development happens there and young players will find their way towards academies of the bigger clubs if they are good enough.

I don't even know how professional divisions outside the premiership are, clearly Bristol have a lot of money to spend (more than the rest of the clubs in that division combined I believe) but I'm guessing it gets very semi-pro very quickly. Prem clubs have done some good recruitment from the championship though and academy and fringe squad players are often dual registered with lower level clubs to get them game time and experience.

Perhaps if the pacific islands were nearer us we could pick up their players instead of them going to NZ

 

[SteCenturion]

OK - the England XIII XV (fookin' Xs) doesn't look good with JT and Locky in it does it? (Or did we discover a grandparent or one?) Offiah stays - if only for his tight shorts...giving rise to the original "Swing low Sweet 'Chariots' " ) No room for Big Mal either? Shame on you! (He would keep the substitute TMOs busy as well as those on the paddock. )

Damn & blast ...

I forgot Mal Meninga

Anyway, you didn't specify England or English so I used poetic licence & half a bottle of single malt to formulate the definitive all time RL squad.

Minus Big Mal of course.

 

[nickyboy]

OK - the England XIII XV (fookin' Xs) doesn't look good with JT and Locky in it does it? (Or did we discover a grandparent or one?) Offiah stays - if only for his tight shorts...giving rise to the original "Swing low Sweet 'Chariots' " ) No room for Big Mal either? Shame on you! (He would keep the substitute TMOs busy as well as those on the paddock. )

Deffo big Mal. Meninga was an all time great but if I had to vote for the best RL player I have ever seen it would probably be Wally Lewis

But back to the issue of RU participation in N England....my son goes to a good RU playing school and their fixture list includes most of the RU playing schools in driving distance. But there are hundreds of schools in driving distance that don't put out a RU side or if they do it is extremely mediocre. For example in Leeds he plays Leeds Grammar and that's it. There must be a gazillion talented boys in Leeds but they never get spotted because they don't go to the right school. The large majority of top RU playing schools in NZ are state schools

I told a little story on the World Cup thread but it is perhaps worthy of repeating here; I went to a school in Lancashire with a rather mediocre RU team. There was a boy in my class who was a good player but never got picked for any rep sides (it went N Lancashire- Lancashire-North-England). He moved to a top RU playing school at 16 and 2 years later was in the England U18 side. There must be loads of boys who don't get spotted due to going to the wrong school

 

[Aperitif]

Some good points and memory joggers above, thank you.
Schoolboy rugby used to be featured in The Telegraph results, with a column of interest...everyone bought a copy to build their 'geography' of opposition / strength /results etc. All the names one read about would feature at the Rosslyn Park Schools 7s at the end of the season, and I would be in awe of the Millfield jerseys, St Edmund's Ware school uniform...Cowley School, (who had a young fly half called Ian Ball....think he trotted off to rugby league and was one of the best players I can remember seeing...a man in a boy's game it seemed.) Ditto for the Old Boys game. Loads of press, local and national.
Total digression, sorry!
Maybe all clubs in League 1 and 2...worldwide? should be restricted to two foreign players - Tier 1. That might 'encourage the others'? Eventually, we'd all end up playing rugby like Argentina, Georgia, Namibia, S.A. etc...

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

I think the current set-up is working just fine*, no need to change it.



*The sense of entitlement aside

 

[Aperitif]

Och, aye, - but don't forget the new.
From today's 'Burgess takes a Bath' article:

The Bath head coach, Mike Ford, also senses England’s World Cup underachievement was a major factor in unsettling Burgess. “It is not Sam’s fault he got selected, it is not his fault he got picked against Wales. If he had stayed with us he would have had a good pre-season but if England had beaten Wales and made the semi-final that would have helped as well.”

Speaking at the launch of the European Champions’ Cup, which included the announcement of a new sponsorship deal with Turkish Airlines, Ford and his fellow Premiership coaches also argued that the gap between northern and southern hemisphere rugby was not as wide as the World Cup suggested.

“There is not as big a crisis as everyone says,” said Ford, a point of view shared by Exeter’s Rob Baxter and Saracens’ Mark McCall.

Northampton’s Jim Mallinder feels likewise, suggesting England were simply not sharp enough in a tactical or selectorial way. “I think we have the players, without a doubt, from our props through to our back three,” said Mallinder.

Full article here.

 

[Aperitif]

Blimey - you are making me feel nostalgic. What school did you go to (if you can remember that far back 'Tif)? I was a QE Barney boy.

Harrow County. Many a time around Arkley v OEs at cricket, rugby back in the days of yore, down the dark lanes, in full-on fog, pissed etc.

('The Gate' was at the top of the road?)

 

[threebikesmcginty]

Can I then add these
*I will anyway*

Kevin Sinfield *Leeds*
Wally Lewis *NRL/Wakefield Trinity Schoolgirls*
Allan Langer *NRL*
Sonny Bill Williams *NRL/RU Wallaby*
Greg Inglis *NRL*
Andrew Johns *NRL*
Darren Lockyer *NRL*
Billy Slater *NRL*
Jonathan Thurston *NRL*
Cooper Cronk *NRL*
Chris Radlinski *Pie*
Trent Barrett *Pie/NRL*
Inga Tuigamala *Pie/NRL*
Andy Gregory *Pie*
Martin Offiah *Pie*
James Graham *St Helens/NRL*
Sam Burgess *Leeds/NRL*
Des Drummond *Leigh*
John Woods *Leigh*
Alex Murphy *Leigh*
Neil Turley *Leigh*
Billy Boston *Pie*
Garry Schofield *Leeds*

Jonathan Davies *Widnes/Warrington/NRL/Neath/Wales RU*

Hagerty F
Hagerty R
Thompkins
Noble
Carrick
Robson
Crapper
Dewhurst
McIntyre
Treadmore
Davitt

 

[Aperitif]

There were 4 pubs in the vicinity The Black Horse, The William IV, The Arkley and The Gate. All well known to boys and masters alike. Indeed The Arkley was known as the sports masters office as they spent more time in there than on the school premises.

I wouldn't possibly have known that. Practical experience counts for a lot.

 

[Aperitif]

Can I then add these
*I will anyway*

Kevin Sinfield *Leeds*
Wally Lewis *NRL/Wakefield Trinity Schoolgirls*
Allan Langer *NRL*
Sonny Bill Williams *NRL/RU Wallaby*
Greg Inglis *NRL*
Andrew Johns *NRL*
Darren Lockyer *NRL*
Billy Slater *NRL*
Jonathan Thurston *NRL*
Cooper Cronk *NRL*
Chris Radlinski *Pie*
Trent Barrett *Pie/NRL*
Inga Tuigamala *Pie/NRL*
Andy Gregory *Pie*
Martin Offiah *Pie*
James Graham *St Helens/NRL*
Sam Burgess *Leeds/NRL*
Des Drummond *Leigh*
John Woods *Leigh*
Alex Murphy *Leigh*
Neil Turley *Leigh*
Billy Boston *Pie*
Garry Schofield *Leeds*

Jonathan Davies *Widnes/Warrington/NRL/Neath/Wales RU*

Sinfield is likely to play for Leeds Carniegie this weekend

 

[Aperitif]

Blimey - you are making me feel nostalgic. What school did you go to (if you can remember that far back 'Tif)? I was a QE Barnet boy.

Further nostalgiaitis, self-administered this time as I went looking for 'Ian Ball' - an insight into the game as it was...
Ray French memories - an interesting read..."Quod Erat Demonstrandum. old boy"

 

[PhilDawson8270]

with Ellery Hanley (the most talented English rugby player I have ever seen)

My mate said he saw a white Hanley. When I asked, "who is he?". He said to me that he goes by the name of James Roby

 

[HertzvanRental]

My brother in law, who was for a brief period a teacher at QE, played second row for Barnet for a number of years. He also played second row as a student at the University of East Anglia with one Andy Ripley. He recounts trying to tackle Ripley during a trial match when he was a fresher. He remembers seeing Ripley running towards him with the ball and lining up the tackle. He then remembers waking up concussed in a heap on the ground having had Ripley run over the top of him. Ripley was a great second row partner and a real gent......of course he's now sadly departed.

I played against Andy Ripley-wherever he was, I wasn't!! Lovely guy, mad as a box of frogs but great company.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I played against Andy Ripley-wherever he was, I wasn't!! Lovely guy, mad as a box of frogs but great company.

He tackled me once. I didn't like it.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

BBC reporting Sam Burgess has left Bath to return to RL in Oz.

Can he take some people with him?