English Rugby Union, what needs to come next?

[GrumpyGregry]

I'm not capable of playing or coaching top flight rugby, so I can't give a meaningful answer.

Are you planning to restrict all other postings elsewhere in cc on the basis of your lack of capabilities?

And you probably are capable of coaching at the top level if you set your mind to it. 10,000 hours and all. Capable, probably. Going to be able to? Another matter entirely.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

For goodness sake, Nicky - it's not the winning or losing that's important...it's the taking part!

There's an interesting sentence or two about the way Ian Foster, the All Blacks backs coach (go for that after a beer or two!) watched how Dan Carter received the ball being passed in his direction...as usual, in The Guardian, in the Sport section...

They'll not cheat...will they? Surely not!

Not cheating so much as having the answers "it was a huge financial success" already supplied and then needing to work back from there.

 

[Wafer]

I strongly believe England would've done better had different players been picked. I don't think they'd of won the cup, but I think there are players good enough to get them to quarters and semi's.

So we certainly don't think the situation is anything like as dire as many here are suggesting.

 

[uphillstruggler]

one of the issues here is that although England have a great big pool of players, it seems that clubs are more likely to buy in experience than let the younger fellas gain it, mainly because it is 'a results based business'.

when you watch some of the southern hemisphere club games, they are a lot faster with higher skill levels. you cant blame that on the northern game being played mostly in winter either as New Zealand has its fair share of crappy weather too.

it would help if England had say 50 players that are dual contracted so that there is a bit of familiarity when they are together - but these players must be selected to fit within a mainframe of how the coaches want to play. it would seem that the current set up were a little undecided on how they wanted to play and who would perform within that system.

I also agree that players need to be physically big but some of those guys are too big to move quickly - pace is good in any sport. I read recently that one of the clubs has a different coach for the backs primarily to avoid injuries by avoiding rather than looking for the collision because when the club reviewed the injuries sustained in the previous season - it was noted that if the player who was injured had tried to avoid the collision, the injury wouldn't have occurred. pretty simple stuff when you look at it that way but you have to look at it that way in the first place and then change the habits.

one thing I don't agree with in the press is that Sam Burgess was a complete disaster. if the coaches had decided that he was the best option, they should have used him in a way that let him use his attributes - namely bloody hard defence and good in certain attacking circumstances.

it looks like the coaching at youth levels is actually starting to bare fruit as the under 20s have been winning pretty regularly and the players are now coming through - Slade and Itoji to mention a couple.

not sure if this is a bit long winded, hope not.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I strongly believe England would've done better had different players been picked. I don't think they'd of won the cup, but I think there are players good enough to get them to quarters and semi's.

So we certainly don't think the situation is anything like as dire as many here are suggesting.

Why were different players not picked?

 

[Wafer]

Lancaster and co. IMHO. I'd generally been supportive of him before but I think the Wales game was the turning point for me after getting increasingly miffed at the world cup selections. Talk about Burgess and Barrit apparently 'working' all you like, I don't think that was the right way to go and there were probably half a dozen English centres who should've been used before arriving at that combination (and that doesn't include JJ and Tuilagi). I'd agree with some commentary on the game suggesting England would've had the game won already had there been different personnel there...

Yeah NH is generally lagging behind SH at international level but there's some guys who were involved in the semi's and final who ply their trade in the prem/top14/pro12 and aren't necessarily suffering because of it. Dean Mumm said playing at Exeter made him a better player, Matt Giteau and Drew Mitchell were big parts of Australia's campaign and Sonny Bill Williams started his RU career at Toulon...
A year ago Australia were average, now they're justified world cup finalists.

I do think England need to rethink the overseas thing. As with the SH players I've just mentioned, going abroad can be a good thing. It does need to be managed and done properly though, not just flipping it from how it is at the moment to picking anyone playing anywhere.

 

[Aperitif]

not sure if this is a bit long winded, hope not.

Not at all. If folk had been gathered around the pub table, you would have said your piece and had many interjections and responses along the way no doubt. That's the trouble with a written forum - one gets to read and re-read all the guff one spouts. In the CC pub, it would be Greg's round by now. He's the one patting his pockets by the way...
Funny how Sonny Bill started at Toulon also - not even in the Top !4 when he went for his pension start up...his mate Tana Umanga was there too. As an aside, have a read of the early-day reportage of Robert Kitson on this matter. He probably is hoping this reportage is buried in the sands of time.
As for the domestic leagues and the way the game is played, there is obviously a need for Victor Matfield to bring his experience of International and 'club' rugby to bear on the youth at Northampton, in the way that John Smit mentored Jamie George etc. Let's hope that bringing experienced players into the elite league squads and letting them 'mentor' train and advise will actually pay dividends in the wider National Team.
Who will be the next England coach? And, as a further aside, has anyone heard a peep from Messrs Lancaster, Farrell and Rowntree etc since the last England XV match? For a TV company they would have offered a cutting-edge insight into the knockout games - maybe. I thought Wilkinson's analysis was good, honest television (as were Michael Lynagh's tantrums) and he would do well within an England coaching set up, I think. Jason Robinson was a bit more laid back about stuff, but he knows things that others don't think. Who will be the next?

 

[uphillstruggler]

Not at all. If folk had been gathered around the pub table, you would have said your piece and had many interjections and responses along the way no doubt. That's the trouble with a written forum - one gets to read and re-read all the guff one spouts. In the CC pub, it would be Greg's round by now. He's the one patting his pockets by the way...
Funny how Sonny Bill started at Toulon also - not even in the Top !4 when he went for his pension start up...his mate Tana Umanga was there too. As an aside, have a read of the early-day reportage of Robert Kitson on this matter. He probably is hoping this reportage is buried in the sands of time.
As for the domestic leagues and the way the game is played, there is obviously a need for Victor Matfield to bring his experience of International and 'club' rugby to bear on the youth at Northampton, in the way that John Smit mentored Jamie George etc. Let's hope that bringing experienced players into the elite league squads and letting them 'mentor' train and advise will actually pay dividends in the wider National Team.
Who will be the next England coach? And, as a further aside, has anyone heard a peep from Messrs Lancaster, Farrell and Rowntree etc since the last England XV match? For a TV company they would have offered a cutting-edge insight into the knockout games - maybe. I thought Wilkinson's analysis was good, honest television (as were Michael Lynagh's tantrums) and he would do well within an England coaching set up, I think. Jason Robinson was a bit more laid back about stuff, but he knows things that others don't think. Who will be the next?

Thanks for the above.

You make a good point re Matfield and smit, that's exactly the conversation I had with a couple of saints fans recently.

Funnily enough, just picked the kids up from their Nan and grandads, the grandparents have just returned from a holiday in Tenerife. Lancaster was staying at the same hotel and sat next to them.

Must have got a late booking says my Irish father in law

 

[Hyslop]

They need to go back to old style kit.....shirts that are baggy to hide the props' beer bellies and shorts with pockets big enough to take 20 Woodbines and a box of matches for a half time smoke.

And an onion apiece at half time for the front row,none of these poncy breath freshening energy drinks,a swig of Brut a la Colin Smart wouldnt harm either.Oh,and a scrum half with venom,a big mouth and a nasty attitude to opposition flankers!

 

[SD1]

[QUOTE 3987201, member: 45"]
The majority of premiership players are fit, rich pansies. That says nothing of the fans.
[/QUOTE]
Sorted!

 

[Aperitif]

Some comments on the 'rules' in today's letter page...as I sit gawping at my 'phone on a static train...
"Another ruck over rugby union v rugby league rules"
http://gu.com/p/4dqxq?

 

[SteCenturion]

The RFU need to raid the RFL for more quality & future stars, especially as League is a far superior sport to Union.

 

[martint235]

The RFU need to raid the RFL for more quality & future stars, especially as League is a far superior sport to Union.

Yeah cos Burgess did so well. As did Andy Farrell........

They are different games. As people have said always contesting the ball is key to Union, in League players have more field space to run into.

 

[Large]

Oh FFS. Why do these threads always degenerate into Leaguers telling everyone how much better their game is?

I love both, and this is not a place for "my game's better than yours" crap.

 

[SteCenturion]

Oh FFS. Why do these threads always degenerate into Leaguers telling everyone how much better their game is?

I love both, and this is not a place for "my game's better than yours" crap.

Because it's just a bit of fun