Entering the box.

[sagefly]

Hi I'm new to cycling and use the green box to get in front of trafficm I figure that if thyey can see you thay at least have a chance of not hitting you.

In London I also use it to get ahead of the traffic at light, both for increased noticability and because the traffic will always in normal London trafffic be behind where its less likely to cause me harm.

I've, toucch wood, had no aggro from drivers as yet.

 

[Cab]

Hi I'm new to cycling and use the green box to get in front of trafficm I figure that if thyey can see you thay at least have a chance of not hitting you.

In London I also use it to get ahead of the traffic at light, both for increased noticability and because the traffic will always in normal London trafffic be behind where its less likely to cause me harm.

I've, toucch wood, had no aggro from drivers as yet.

Getting aggro for using the ASL is rare, but it deos happen. Worst I've had was a woman who lost her rag completely, yelled, screamed, opened her door and slammed it a few times in some kind of hissy fit, pulled up in the box alongside me, and continued to yell and rev her engine. I dismounted, she seemed to be challenging me to cycle off in front of her. I woudn't, she drove to the other side of the junction, got out, and came back to look for a fight leaving her door open, the engine running, and a child strapped in to a baby seat in the back of the car. As I wouldn't engage and by now she had plenty of witnesses, she backed off.

The Police, when contacted, didn't give a monkeys.

 

[boydj]

When I'm approaching a TL with ASL from the crownside, I try to get to the kerbside either across the ASL box or between stationary vehicles before the ASL box.

I do not however, perch myself immediately in front of the leading vehicle inside the ASL box. AND, I do not ride off from stationary 'slap-bang' infront of a motorist. I have the right of course, but it's asking for reaction and confrontation, just like what the OP got.

I generally find it safer to do the opposite. Most ASLs are entered from the right, if one lane, or the middle, if two lanes. Start position is bang in the middle of the lane, then moving to secondary, if appropriate, once up to speed. Knowing the sequuence and being quick off the mark helps avoid upsetting the motorists.

I find the ASLs particularly useful in a couple of places where I know I'm going to hold primary for a bit and the traffic is heavy.

 

[jimboalee]

Think yourselves lucky. Here in Brum most of our ASLs don't have a feed-in point but a solid line the full width.

I never enter from the left. Traffic lights are were car passengers get out, because it's convenient. You're also more likely to find yourself in the path of a vehicle turning across you who hasn't seen you.

And if I can't get in the centre line of the car behind, I'll make myself obvious until I've seen the driver look at me.

Once, I was in front of a driver's near-side headlight. He bibbed his horn. When I turned around he gestured with a flat hand for me to move to the left, out of his way. Now concerned about what his plans were when the lights changed, I moved right, central to the car, blocking him completely and preventing him from trying to cut me up. I got control, the idiot got more wound up. Win win!

I find the motorists are more agressive NORTH of the A45 & Hollyhead Rd.

The favourite place for ignorant motoring on the Outer Circle between The Crown and Cushion & the Rookery Rd turn.
And of course, past the Villa ground. B)

 

[jimboalee]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again...

"A cyclist can ride his/her bike ANYWHERE".

He/she might get escorted off the motorway with a severe bollocking, but it stands that only a fence across the carriageway will stop a cyclist.

Having said that, it is sensible to ride one's bike where it is most safe,
ie, out of the firing line of 1.5 tonne lumps of metal on wheels.

This is Rule 3 of "How to survive on a bicycle".

Rule 1 is "Obey the Highway Code" and Rule 2 is "Light up & dress brightly".

Oh, and teaching children to ride. Throw the Highway Code at them and if they can't understand it, they're not old enough yet.

 

[BentMikey]

You're just plain wrong, Jimbo.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

You're just plain wrong, Jimbo.

Indeed. What a strange post.

 

[eldudino]

You're just plain wrong, Jimbo.

I've been perplexed as to what his point has been since the start of this topic as it seems to change with every post he submits.

 

[Cab]

Having said that, it is sensible to ride one's bike where it is most safe,
ie, out of the firing line of 1.5 tonne lumps of metal on wheels.

Mikey and Rythm Thief say you're just plain wrong.

I say you're wrong with raspberry sauce and nuts on, with a 99 flake sticking out at a jaunty angle.

The safest location on the road is not 'out of the way'. Whether such a place exists anyway is dubious, but the attempt to get 'out of the way' is not something you should be striving for. You're safer in the line of sight of motorists, and with an escape route should you need it. Or, in other words, in many/most situations in traffic the correct place to be is where you're taught to be on safe cycling courses, and thats a primary position. Where traffic is starting to move off from a junction, if you've got the option of taking primary, to do so is a textbook example of good cycling.

You may act on the roads as you wish, but bear in mind that if you continue to do it your way, you're needlessly increasing risk to yourself, and pointlessly reinforcing the misapprehension in the minds of motons that this is where you should be. Thats if they even register you're there at all.

 

[Cab]

Lee, go back and look at Jimbos comments on page 4. He's not just saying obey the highway code.

 

[jimboalee]

Hands up who's been on a Club run or an Audax!

When the group ( and it might only be 3 cyclists ) come to a village, town, built up area, traffic calming etc, you will hear a shout "SINGLING OUT"; which means "Get out of two-abreast and move over to the left".

Are you trying to tell me the seniors at my club, who incidentally are cycling tutors for the Council, are WRONG?

Also, on narrow lanes, you will hear "CAR UP", which means "Move over to the left and stop if necessary to let him pass".

Plonking yourself in 'Primary', whatever that is?? will simply infuriate the motorist who is following you.
Also, riding alone in the position of the rider who would take up the two-abreast offside position is in the view of Mr Plod, a "bloody silly place to ride a bike.", as per my friends at Solihull nick.

Road courtesy in my book says "Any slow moving vehicle that holds up traffic should move across to the left or stop to allow following vehicle to pass if there are three or more vehicles following".

Riding in your 'Primary' position along a busy street is just plain arrogant and disruptive to the cycling cause.

Cyclists have to be seen to be courteous and considerate, NOT 'the prat holding up the traffic'.

 

[summerdays]

You don't plonk yourself in primary all of the time - you use it as you need it. If you are on a narrow road with parked cars on one side and 5 cars following you then they will have to wait till I get to the other end - same way they would behind a milk float. I'm not going to get off my bike everytime I have 3 cars behind me.... I'd never get anywhere in the city. If I'm in primary its for my safety or because I'm doing the same speed they are - Very slow.

If I see a narrowing coming up and I can let them over take by cycling in secondary in advance of the narrowing I will.

 

[Coco]

Surely its a case of using Primary wherever it is appropriate. I often use it as the OP said when approaching pinch points or where I need to be sure the car behind has seen me and won't be tempted to overtake dangerously.

There are many points on my route home that simply would not be safe to ride in anything but Primary position. In fact its was only with experience and a bit of assertiveness that I realised that I could avoid the many near death experiences I had in my early days.

That being said, once the danger is over, I routinely move to Secondary position in order to not hold up the traffic.

 

[BentMikey]

That's because you don't understand the use of primary - it's not for all the time, it's for when you need the space to ensure your safety. Exactly why you shouldn't be in the gutter at traffic lights.

As for cycling clubs, many members of the clubs I've been on rides with have fairly poor traffic skills in my experience. Stuff like riding right in the door zone, sitting nicely left at times when it's appropriate, but also sometimes sitting left instead of out in the lane and closing the door when they should.

 

[stowie]

Hands up who's been on a Club run or an Audax!

When the group ( and it might only be 3 cyclists ) come to a village, town, built up area, traffic calming etc, you will hear a shout "SINGLING OUT"; which means "Get out of two-abreast and move over to the left".

Are you trying to tell me the seniors at my club, who incidentally are cycling tutors for the Council, are WRONG?

Also, on narrow lanes, you will hear "CAR UP", which means "Move over to the left and stop if necessary to let him pass".

Plonking yourself in 'Primary', whatever that is?? will simply infuriate the motorist who is following you.
Also, riding alone in the position of the rider who would take up the two-abreast offside position is in the view of Mr Plod, a "bloody silly place to ride a bike.", as per my friends at Solihull nick.

Road courtesy in my book says "Any slow moving vehicle that holds up traffic should move across to the left or stop to allow following vehicle to pass if there are three or more vehicles following".

Riding in your 'Primary' position along a busy street is just plain arrogant and disruptive to the cycling cause.

Cyclists have to be seen to be courteous and considerate, NOT 'the prat holding up the traffic'.

I think club runs with multiple riders (presumably on rural roads?) will be different. Pulling over to the left and stopping sounds very polite and allows vehicles to overtake in one go.

In London however, primary is critical to maintain your roadspace at times where overtaking is dangerous

I use primary when the traffic (which is more often than not in London) is travelling at the same speed, or slower than me. It stops idiots coming alongside without being able to actually overtake. I use primary where I am overtaking parked cars and don't want to be pinched by someone opening a car door on my left and a car overtaking on the right. I use primary whilst waiting at traffic lights where I have filtered to the front, or am waiting in a queue, so the person behind can see me clearly.

In all these cases, primary is held for a short period of time until the danger has passed and I go into secondary, normally with a little wave of thanks for the vehicle behind.

I have seen a cyclist pushed into parked cars by a (Royal Mail) van who thought there would be enough room to overtake on a double parked road, when there wasn't. The cyclist was hugging the parked cars in a way that just made my heart stop. Primary stops this. As a driver, I much prefer to see a cyclist smoothly take up primary around a parked car, or other danger, than hug the kerb until the last moment and pop out.

Of course some drivers will get frustrated by the moment that they have to wait. But when I drive, I see some motorists get frustrated by cars, lorries and buses as well. Some people are idiots, and nothing can change that. In my experience most drivers are very cautious and reasonable around cyclists, and accidents happen when they don't see us, or they make a poor decision to overtake in a bad place. Responsible use of primary helps prevent both.