Entering the box.
- Thread starter eldudino
- Start date
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tdr1nka
Taking the biscuit
- Location
- SE London, Bandit Country
jimboalee said:
Maybe not in the example you are quoting but you are missing the fact that there are also times where it is safer and quicker for a car to overtake ten cyclists riding in pairs rather than in a single line.
Cyclists are asked in the HC to not travel 'more than' two abreast so unless you are holding up traffic unecessarily you are not actually in the wrong.
FWIW, Your comments on ASL boxes renders their existance obsolete.
I will, when I can, position myself at the head of the traffic at an ASL for whichever direction I intend to travel. It's what they are for.
If I am meant to hide subserviently on the left and let the traffic past before I can get up speed then why do most ASL's span the entire width of the lanes?
If I rode in London as you have prescribed I'd be better off going by bus.
thomas
the tank engine
- Location
- Woking/Norwich
jimboalee said:
Certainly there is a different style to riding in club runs...I for instance don't yell 'car up', 'car down' when out by myself
. Generally on club runs sticking to secondary is all that's needed....but then club runs are on different roads to my commute and not generally during rush hour.I don't think anyone on here takes primary, with the view to annoy people. It's only done when we don't want to be overtaken within the skin of our teeth or to make ourselves stand out a bit more at junctions, etc. Yes, it may annoy some people but those people would get annoyed if a cyclist was anywhere.
trsleigh said:
As a veteran commute cyclist with 45 years of cycling around Birmingham and the Black Country, I have been bumped by a car on two occasions.
After both of these incidents, I learned a valuable lesson....
"Don't ride in the middle of the lane like a complete peanut".
The first incident was on the Lichfield Rd, Aston where there was a 'Pinchpoint' ( centre bollards ) ahead. I rode in the 'primary' through the pinchpoint to the disgust of the following Taxicab. When through, I went back to 1 yd out whereupon the cabbie overtook and then swept across to the left leaving me no option but to stop quick.
After this incident, I checked behind me well in advance of this 'pinchpoint'. If there was a car close, I would slow to let it pass before I gave a signal and took my position.
I don't have to ride that road any longer.
The second incident was when I took 'primary' in anticiption of passing a car signalling Right and stood stationary waiting to make his move. I could see there wasn't enough room for the car behind AND I to get through the gap together so I took the lane. I effectively stopped the car following overtaking me before we reached the restriction. His reaction was to run me into the kerb when we were past the restriction.
I was, in his opinion, "The prat holding up the traffic".
I ride about 5000 miles per year and am always aware of whether I am "the prat" or not.
One of my favourite 50km rides is around Birmingham's No. 11 bus, Outer Circle route. There are all types of road conditions from dual carriageway to narrow shopping streets.
It takes about 2 1/2 hours on my commute heavyweight, so I'm not fast. I DON'T see aggression from motorists because I try to keep out of their way rather than take a dominant 'peanut' position on the road.
All goes well and I arrive home safely for my shower with both legs still attached to my hips, and no bruises on my chin from angry motorists.
Maybe in 45 years from now, I will give up cycling.
trsleigh said:
As a veteran commute cyclist with 45 years of cycling around Birmingham and the Black Country, I have been bumped by a car on two occasions.
After both of these incidents, I learned a valuable lesson....
"Don't ride in the middle of the lane like a complete peanut".
The first incident was on the Lichfield Rd, Aston where there was a 'Pinchpoint' ( centre bollards ) ahead. I rode in the 'primary' through the pinchpoint to the disgust of the following Taxicab. When through, I went back to 1 yd out whereupon the cabbie overtook and then swept across to the left leaving me no option but to stop quick.
After this incident, I checked behind me well in advance of this 'pinchpoint'. If there was a car close, I would slow to let it pass before I gave a signal and took my position.
I don't have to ride that road any longer.
The second incident was when I took 'primary' in anticiption of passing a car signalling Right and stood stationary waiting to make his move. I could see there wasn't enough room for the car behind AND I to get through the gap together so I took the lane. I effectively stopped the car following overtaking me before we reached the restriction. His reaction was to run me into the kerb when we were past the restriction.
I was, in his opinion, "The prat holding up the traffic".
I ride about 5000 miles per year and am always aware of whether I am "the prat" or not.
One of my favourite 50km rides is around Birmingham's No. 11 bus, Outer Circle route. There are all types of road conditions from dual carriageway to narrow shopping streets.
It takes about 2 1/2 hours on my commute heavyweight, so I'm not fast. I DON'T see aggression from motorists because I try to keep out of their way rather than take a dominant 'peanut' position on the road.
All goes well and I arrive home safely for my shower with both legs still attached to my hips, and no bruises on my chin from angry motorists.
Maybe in 45 years from now, I will give up cycling.
jimboalee said:
1 yard? So, too close to the kerb for a typical secondary, hence you invited too close an overtake and got cut up badly. Not the fault of taking primary, the fault being one of not understanding how correctly to take secondary. Sounds like that was the cause of both of those incidents.
I suspect (but I don't know) that you're also too accepting in how close you're happy with cars passing you. Thats common in someone who has been riding too passively for as long as you have.
Odds are you'll continue plodding along just fine without any major accidents. Generally thats what happens. But you are increasing risk the way you ride.
jimboalee said:
1 yard? So, too close to the kerb for a typical secondary, hence you invited too close an overtake and got cut up badly. Not the fault of taking primary, the fault being one of not understanding how correctly to take secondary. Sounds like that was the cause of both of those incidents.
I suspect (but I don't know) that you're also too accepting in how close you're happy with cars passing you. Thats common in someone who has been riding too passively for as long as you have.
Odds are you'll continue plodding along just fine without any major accidents. Generally thats what happens. But you are increasing risk the way you ride.
thegrumpybiker
New Member
- Location
- North London
jimboalee said:
I think you're being overly harsh on yourself here. The motorists are definitely the peanuts in both situations, without a doubt.
thegrumpybiker
New Member
- Location
- North London
jimboalee said:
I think you're being overly harsh on yourself here. The motorists are definitely the peanuts in both situations, without a doubt.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
jimboalee said:
This bit is the only bit of good cyclecraft you've posted on this topic, I think. It's what Cyclecraft teaches, and is good practice I like to follow myself.
The rest is pretty much boll0cks. The drivers were to blame, not your road position, which left you with enough room to get out of the trouble they caused.
BentMikey
Rider of Seolferwulf
- Location
- South London
jimboalee said:
This bit is the only bit of good cyclecraft you've posted on this topic, I think. It's what Cyclecraft teaches, and is good practice I like to follow myself.
The rest is pretty much boll0cks. The drivers were to blame, not your road position, which left you with enough room to get out of the trouble they caused.
What you have ALL missed here is...
45 years cycling in the West Midlands metropolis and I've had TWO incidents.
The first was 15 years ago and the second 4 years ago.
You are probably correct in saying "It was the motorists who were to blame", but what caused them to get so aggrieved? It was my riding 'In their way'....
OP committed TWO fatal mistakes.
1/ He rode away in 'Primary', effectively becoming 'the prat on the bike'.
2/ He TOUCHED Mr Focus' precious metal.
To avoid getting sworn at ( or if its really bad, smacked in the teeth ) again, get out of the idiot's way and DON'T lay a finger on his paintwork.
45 years cycling in the West Midlands metropolis and I've had TWO incidents.
The first was 15 years ago and the second 4 years ago.
You are probably correct in saying "It was the motorists who were to blame", but what caused them to get so aggrieved? It was my riding 'In their way'....
OP committed TWO fatal mistakes.
1/ He rode away in 'Primary', effectively becoming 'the prat on the bike'.
2/ He TOUCHED Mr Focus' precious metal.
To avoid getting sworn at ( or if its really bad, smacked in the teeth ) again, get out of the idiot's way and DON'T lay a finger on his paintwork.
