Excessive free play in hub that can't be cured by tightening cones.

[Brandane]

Been doing some work on my Ridgeback Panorama and part of it involved stripping the rear wheel axle and re-greasing the ball bearings..
All went well until I put the wheel back on the bike and found that there is excessive free play, i.e. sideways movement of the wheel.
I took it apart again, but no matter what I do I cannot eliminate the free play without making the bearings so tight that the axle won't spin smoothly - to the extent that the freehub is not spinning freely when I back pedal. I suspect that you are going to tell me the cones/races/bearings are shot and need replaced (a new hub then?). Is this suspicion correct? It's a Shimano 105 FH5700 hub.

 

[fossyant]

You should be able to take play out with cup and cone, but if shot they will run rough. Check it all again. Washers in the right place ?

 

[Brandane]

You should be able to take play out with cup and cone, but if shot they will run rough. Check it all again. Washers in the right place ?

It all went back the same way it came out. Visually everything looks good; when I cleaned it up everything was still smooth and shiny with no marks on the cones or races. There was none of that rusty muck either, as I have found when doing this job on other bikes. A bit stumped here! I might try changing the ball bearings since I have spares.

 

[Brooks]

If your taking it back to the axle again just check the axle by rolling on a table, you want it to roll smoothly. Sometimes a rear axle can bend slightly from dropping down kerbs etc, if this is the case it won't spin freely even after servicing the hub.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Are the balls the correct size? The cup and cones will be ground to a certain radius.

 

[twentysix by twentyfive]

I think you may have worn through the hardened surface of the hub bearing, the cones or both. So only soft metal available. Time for a new hub I think.

RIP hub

 

[Brandane]

Are the balls the correct size? The cup and cones will be ground to a certain radius.

It's the original balls that I put back in after cleaning and re-greasing them. AFAIK there was no excessive free play before I messed with it, but then I didn't check.... All I have done is taken out the axle, cones, ball bearings, and associated spacers and washers; then cleaned them up and replaced everything as it was....

 

[silva]

Or a ball missing.
I had the opposite, one too much, and when I picked up the bike at the shop, and I wanted to walk out with it, the wheel suddenly had alot play. The extra pressure caused by the extra ball pushed cone and cup away from eachother.

 

[Brandane]

Or a ball missing

Not that. I count them back in, 9 each side.

 

[CharleyFarley]

It's the original balls that I put back in after cleaning and re-greasing them. AFAIK there was no excessive free play before I messed with it, but then I didn't check.... All I have done is taken out the axle, cones, ball bearings, and associated spacers and washers; then cleaned them up and replaced everything as it was....

I bought a new beach cruiser from a bike shop in January 2020. After 600 miles both wheels were grinding. I cleaned the bearings and races and re-greased with White Lightning Crystal grease specially made for bikes. The back wheel was fine but the front wheel made a sound like stones being thrown up and hitting the aluminum fender (mudguard). I had ordered new ball bearings and when I put those in the sound was no longer there.

The 3/16" ball bearings were making enough noise that transmitted through the axle, then the forks and the fender stays, and finally sounding through the fenders. There must have been something drastic going on with those bearings, yet they looked good when I took them out and cleaned them. I'd say that once ball bearings have developed some kind of problem, don't reuse them. Incidentally, I now have over 2,100 miles on the bike and no more problems.

 

[Brandane]

This is a weird one. Is it possible to over-grease the hub assembly? And even if you do, would it cause the problems I had?
I took the bike for a short ride, with the cones tightened as much as I could while leaving the axle running smoothly. After a mile or so, I noticed some grease starting to ooze out of the seals. Meanwhile noticed that when back pedaling, the freehub had freed up significantly. Took the bike home, nipped up the cones again to eliminate the free play, took it for another ride and it's working perfectly! No free play and axle spinning smooth as silk. So all good but still not sure what the problem was.

 

[Ajax Bay]

No and no. Excess will find a place to go, with no detrimental effect (apart from the 'risk' of getting grease on the cleaning rag).
Worth just replacing the bearings (balls) as a first remediation. Ensure that all 18 are from the same batch (I just buy a bag of 20 as and when needed from my LBS) - increases assurance that they are all identically sized.
Glad it sorted itself out and they are now 'smooth as'.

 

[gbb]

Had similar once, adjustment fell out in days, re-adjust, seemed ok only to go out again a few days later.

What i found was the thread on the axle was slightly worn/damaged, i was adjusting up and tightening the locknut, all seemed ok but i assumed the cone or locknut were eventually slipping on the damaged thread. I had to look really carefully to see it (they are very fine threads tbf)

 

[CharleyFarley]

This is a weird one. Is it possible to over-grease the hub assembly? And even if you do, would it cause the problems I had?

I very much doubt that.

... Meanwhile noticed that when back pedaling, the freehub had freed up significantly. Took the bike home, nipped up the cones again to eliminate the free play, took it for another ride and it's working perfectly! No free play and axle spinning smooth as silk. So all good but still not sure what the problem was.

I wheeled my Specialized Fatboy out, one evening, and noticed the pedals turning. I had never noticed it, before, but they didn't turn when it was new. So it pointed to a freehub problem. It still did it's job when I stopped pedaling, but if I lifted my feet off the pedals while moving, the pedals turned on their own.

I removed the cassette to check it out. It was a bit stiff so I cleaned and re-greased the bearings. I put the cassette back on and turned it by hand but it was still stiff. If I only very slightly tightened the lockring it was fine but not acceptable. Tightening the lockring, properly, and the stiffness was back. A new freehub cured the problem. I'd guess I had about 6,000 miles on it when the problem started. It now has 10,100 miles and still going well.

If your problem reoccurs, it could point to a worn freehub.