F*ck off punk

[accountantpete]

The Manchester scene produced the Buzzcocks.

And as for the Pistols,the newspaper reaction to the Bill Grundy episode showed how thin the veneer of tolerance within the establishment really is and it still leaves a nasty taste after 30 years.

 

[02GF74]

punk was a good thing and a bad thing. mostly good. it started off as an attritude: stooges, ramones, 'pistols, damned, KILLING JOKE I could go on then became a fashion once the marketing men jumped onto it. and it spawned new wave, grunge and didn't have pretty boy manfucatured bands. (not quite true as the 'psitols were manufactured by mclaren).

 

[Mr Pig]

I have to disagree with the dismissal of punk though.

Well, I'm not dismissing punk really. I actually like some of it, I was just listening to Stiff Little Fingers for example, but in the case of The Pistols the energy was about all they had going for them. Which is fair enough, but sometimes kids get angry, not out of some real moral justification, but just because they're tossers who like the sound of their own voices.

And I would have to disagree about The Pistols being tighter than any rock band. The pompous rock of the seventies is something The Pistols would never have had a rat's chance of playing.

And that's the difference. You are quite right, a lot of seventies rock was indeed w**k but Lydon and his pals weren't heroes of truth. The just sold a different flavour of w**k to a different set of people! At least seventies rock w**k is technically interesting.

Although even Lydon has his moments, genius:

LINK

 

[akaAndrew]

And I would have to disagree about The Pistols being tighter than any rock band. The pompous rock of the seventies is something The Pistols would never have had a rat's chance of playing.

'Tight' to me doesn't need to encompass ability or musical virtuoso. For me, it's about sounding like a well oiled machine (which most of punk was not!). The Sex Pistols (and The Stranglers for that matter) were practised. Listen to 'Never Mind the Bollocks' and disregard the lyrics and lyrical sneer - that's a damned tight rock and roll band you're listening to!

Imho, PIL were way better, edgier - if less consistant - than the Pistols. Lydon, for all his posturing, is creative in a way than many musicians can only ever dream of being.

 

[PaulB]

At least seventies rock w**k is technically interesting.

Except it isn't though, obviously.

I challenge anyone to point me in the direction of an "interesting" seventies rock band. And isn't "interesting" the last thing you want with music anyway? You want one or more of the ingredients spirit, anger, soul, great lyrics, beat, feel, passion and surprise. That's my tuppenyworth anyway!

 

[asterix]

Except it isn't though, obviously.

I challenge anyone to point me in the direction of an "interesting" seventies rock band. And isn't "interesting" the last thing you want with music anyway? You want one or more of the ingredients spirit, anger, soul, great lyrics, beat, feel, passion and surprise. That's my tuppenyworth anyway!

T. Rex
Hawkwind
Genesis..

 

[Mr Pig]

Except it isn't though, obviously.

I challenge anyone to point me in the direction of an "interesting" seventies rock band.

Genesis have long been one of my favourite bands.

I had PIL-'This Is Not A love Song' in the car but I had to give up on it as it drove the kids mad! ;0)

 

[alecstilleyedye]

"punk's not dead it just deserves to die, when it becomes another stale cartoon" - jello biafra

out of order about tony wilson chuffy, the man's a flawed genius around these parts, and many want a statue of him in manchester.

 

[PaulB]

T. Rex
Hawkwind
Genesis..

Are T. Rex and Genesis seventies "rock bands"? I like them both and (maybe foolishly) assumed the reference was to the likes of tedionauts such as ELP, Yes, Uriah Heep (of shite) and all that sort of dross.

 

[Mr Pig]

"punk's not dead it just deserves to die, when it becomes another stale cartoon"

Doesn't all music?

Blasting my reluctant children with PIL my son countered with 'Smash Mouth', which I had to explain was a cartoon of ska. Dragged him downstairs to listen to The Specials, The Beat and The Selector...which if you think about it is just a cartoon of reggae...

So, as Madness blast out of the livingroom, I guess at the end of the day who cares :0)

"My girls mad at me.... "

 

[akaAndrew]

You want one or more of the ingredients spirit, anger, soul, great lyrics, beat, feel, passion and surprise.

I'm inclined to agree with you. It's subjective though clearly, and I guess some are moved by technical ability as demonstrated in solos etc. Perhaps it appeals more to musicians (of which I am most definately not!) because they can appreciate the complexities.

My big brother was a fan of Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Genesis, ELP, Yes (to a lesser extent), Rik Wakeman, etc etc etc so I ended up acquiring quite a knowledge of it all. I could appreciate the musicianship of a great deal of it but it didn't 'move' me as such. I preferred my mother's Jim Reeves, Martie Robbins and Hank Williams' records for that! My personal tastes began to form (and I say this in all seriousness) with the release of Abba's 'Waterloo'! It's there that I discovered that I'm in love with pop music - for it's ability to speak to my soul, because it enlivens my being and I feel the joy of being alive. Cliches maybe but where I'm at!

To me, Mowtown (not that I'm a Mowtown geek) is the absolute zenith of pop music. There's something about it's very musical construction and invariabley yearning of the lyrics that just cries out to me. At the risk of serious derision, I can listen to something like 'The Shoop Shoop Song' and just be so happy to exist! Though I would hastily like to add that I don't consider that particular tune to be (seriously) the purist Mowtown.

 

[Mr Pig]

Are T. Rex and Genesis seventies "rock bands"?

What else would you call them?

Gabriel did he fair share of tossing in the early 'dressing-up box' days but they were always underpinned by at the very least musical competence and before long genius. I guess the shy retiring type are unlikely to aim for the stage but as long as the tossers who do climb up there have talent I don't mind.

 

[PaulB]

Hank Williams'

To me, Mowtown (not that I'm a Mowtown geek) is the absolute zenith of pop music. There's something about it's very musical construction and invariabley yearning of the lyrics that just cries out to me. At the risk of serious derision, I can listen to something like 'The Shoop Shoop Song' and just be so happy to exist! Though I would hastily like to add that I don't consider that particular tune to be (seriously) the purist Mowtown.

I think we share the same tastes then. I adore Hank Williams and I also think Motown is the best of the best along with some of the top Northern Soul tunes of my adolescence.

Here's a pop quiz for you (and anyone else who wants to join in); what is (virtually*) unique about Motown hit singles from their first hit to 1978?

* One song bucked the trend and there's an extra point if you can get that song (that's also a fairly helpful clue!)

 

[akaAndrew]

I guess the shy retiring type are unlikely to aim for the stage

Unlikely perhaps but not precluded. Indeed, some of the more creative artists where probably of the 'shy and retiring' type. Their desire to create overrode the shyness?? I'm thinking of people like Kate Bush and Morrissey, though a couple of moments thought would have me citing others.

 

[PaulB]

What else would you call them?

Gabriel did he fair share of tossing in the early 'dressing-up box' days but they were always underpinned by at the very least musical competence and before long genius. I guess the shy retiring type are unlikely to aim for the stage but as long as the tossers who do climb up there have talent I don't mind.

T. Rex were a pop band and Genesis crossed over to the pop mainstream.