filling your car tank up

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mgarl10024

Über Member
Location
Bristol
I hardly use my car, I've only bought £50 worth this year

Me too! (Thanks to cycle commuting).

When I took my car in for it's annual service and MoT, the chappy said "you've only done 1240 miles since your last MoT, I think just an interim service is needed" and he barely did anything. :tongue:

(In the same year [11mths] my bike has almost done 2000 miles - largely commuting).
 

Night Train

Maker of Things
The energy density in 'oils' is really significant and is one of the reasons why electric cars always look so poor in comparison.

Out of interest - how does it compare with electricity prices? I'll assume that electrical energy is more expensive as you have to convert it and rarely get better than about 40% of the energy in a fossil fuel.

I did the calculations for my electric reverse trike project recently to check the payback possibilities.
These are the numbers I have come out with based on the designed energy use of the trike.
Currently (23[sup]rd[/sup] March 2011) the cost of diesel fuel is £1.40 per litre. That equates to £6.36 per gallon.

Say my car currently commutes 70 miles per day over 4 days per week for 40 weeks a year running at 50mpg.




70 x 4 = 280 miles

280 / 50 = 5.6 gallons

5.6 x £6.36 = £35.62 per week.

£35.62 x 40 = £1424.80 per year



The cost of lithium batteries are currently around $1.10 per Ah.

I will be using 30 x 160Ah cells.



160 x $1.10 = $176 per cell


$176 x 30 = $5280 for the whole battery pack




The current exchange rate is around $1=£0.60.

5280 x 0.6 = £3168 pack price (ignoring delivery costs).



The capacity of the pack is:

96V x 160Ah = 15360Wh.



The pack will be used to 80% DoD (Depth of Discharge) so using 12288Wh.

Allowing for 90% efficiency of the charger the energy consumed from the mains on each charge will be 13653Wh.



The cost of 1kWh is around £0.12.

The cost of a recharge is £1.64 per day.



There will be 4 charges a week x 40 charges in a year resulting in 160 charges costing £262.40 per year.



So, the annual saving in running the electric car is £1424.80 - £262.40 = £1162.40.



So, given the cost of the pack and the saving:

£3168 / £1162.4 = 2.73 years to recover the cost of the initial outlay of the pack.



Assuming the pack lasts 1000 charge cycles (some manufacturers expect 3000 charge cycles) with 160 charges per year the pack will last:

1000 / 160 = 6.25 years.



6.25 – 2.73 = 3.52 years benefit.

3.52 x £1162.4 = £4091.65 overall profit over current diesel costs.



With this calculation it shows that a significant saving can be made by running electric for my work commute. Even allowing for cost increases in electricity the overall increase will not be anywhere near the increase in the cost of diesel. The saving of over £4000 in the remaining life of the pack is more the n enough to cover the replacement costs for the next pack. This will result in even more saving in the following six years of pack life.
 

GrasB

Veteran
Location
Nr Cambridge
I have tested this and found that with a light car hard accellerationup to speed and then cuising on a light throttle was more economic then slow acceleration through the gears.

It works on the basis that 20mpg for 10 seconds uses less fuel then 35mpg for 60 seconds before cruising. On this basis I will drop a couple of gears and blast up a hill quickly rather then slog it out in top gear for a minute or so.
+1
How to drive a standard cinquecento/seicento economically on open roads:
1) accelerate briskly (circa 70% throttle) to a speed where the engine is just on-cam in top gear - about 60mph on MPIs & SPI sportings, about 55 on MPI sportings
2) If you encounter a hill that makes you increase the throttle noticeable then change down until you're easing off the throttle
2a) if in a SPI 'cento sporting & it's over about 7% gradient nail engine to the red line (note: the 6000rpm red line is a function of std cam profile & ignition timing not cooling capacity or engine revving ability, standard limiter was at 7200rpm but often were good for more like 8000rpm).
This will see you make a mockery of all official fiat fuel economy figures assuming that the engine is well serviced & you're using good quality fuel.

Alfa is actually similar, bellow 35mph accelerate hard enough to get the big turbo just spooling up until you hit the desired speed & once above 40mph accelerate as hard as you can without being anti-social. When cruising try to keep the big turbo from spooling up.
 

Night Train

Maker of Things
Especially if you recharge at work :evil:

Anyone looked at similar calcs for LPG conversion?

For the saving of £5+ a day I wouldn't mind paying if work would let me charge up. If they did I could have have half the battery capacity and save even more money!

I've not looked in detail at LPG but the only saving is in fuel duty. If was more widely used the duty would go up. In all other respects I would say it is worse then petrol. You get increased fuel consumption and thus more CO2 emissions.

Electric would be a problem to add duty on for vehicle use as it would be difficult to meter or monitor against non duty domstic use and also it would be wrong to put duty on if it was renewably generated via your own solar or wind system.
 

TheDoctor

Noble and true, with a heart of steel
Moderator
Location
The TerrorVortex
For the saving of £5+ a day I wouldn't mind paying if work would let me charge up. If they did I could have have half the battery capacity and save even more money!

I've not looked in detail at LPG but the only saving is in fuel duty. If was more widely used the duty would go up. In all other respects I would say it is worse then petrol. You get increased fuel consumption and thus more CO2 emissions.

Electric would be a problem to add duty on for vehicle use as it would be difficult to meter or monitor against non duty domstic use and also it would be wrong to put duty on if it was renewably generated via your own solar or wind system.


Bang on, mate. Looked at LPG conversions a few years ago and it only paid because of the reduction in duty Fuel economy was 15% down or thereabouts. I suppose if you're trying to burn something else in an engine designed to run on petrol something's got to give.
 

skudupnorth

Cycling Skoda lover
I fear i am going to blow my "please refuel" bulb on the dash if i don't get a wage rise to fill the car up !!!:biggrin:

On a serious note i don't use my car at all for commuting because it is quicker to ride and of course more fun.
Love the write up on the Fiat,we used to have a Fiat Cinqucento sporting before we started breeding and that was just brilliant on fuel economy,would have another or a Seicento but cramming a family of six in one is against the law nowadays !!!:whistle:
 
Just put £85 worth in my old Merc and it still wasn't full :eek:

It only does in the 20's per gallon so it's a good job I only use it for please about once a week.
 

fossyant

Ride It Like You Stole It!
Location
South Manchester
I think most small cars are great on fuel - i.e. even spirited driving doesn't damage the fuel - I had a Micra 1.3 Super S that you could rag, no drop in fuel consumption. My missus 11 year old Yaris still does 50-60mpg on a run - very economical round town too - better than her father's new Prius..... and much more eco as he's on his second Prius in 5 years....

My car is a medium family saloon - petrol, and starts eating fuel over 3000 revs - so keep it to 65 on the motorway and I'll see 40 mpg. With the bikes on, if I keep it to about 60, it won't be far behind, but can it, then the mpg falls through the floor.
 
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