Filter lanes and ASLs - an idea.

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4F

Active member of Helmets Are Sh*t Lobby
Location
Suffolk.
magnatom said:
My previous suggestion was that there should be a hatched area about 3 or 4 cars back from the lights which should be kept clear of cars/vans/lorries etc. Cyclists would be allowed to filter into the hatch. This would allow us to get through on one phase safely, by allowing us to take the primary a few cars back. It would be safer to enter as it would be back from the main junction.

Of course there would be problems of enforcement, but maybe at some junctions this sort of thing would help. So instead of an ASL you would have a ESZ an early stop zone.

I cannot see that working. Just look at the amount of idiot drivers who already enter asl's, block ped crossings and stop in painted hatch areas. There is no way they are keep out of this.
 
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Pete

Guest
magnatom said:
I should first say Pete I didn't want to hijack the thread. I hope I didn't (of course I did! :wacko:)
Not a hijack at all: it's perfectly correct to extend the debate to cycle provisions at junctions, in general. :smile:

Indeed the statistics - the statistics mind you, not my personal experience - tell us that turning vehicles - by which I mean, those travelling in the same direction as the cyclist which then make a turn - pose the biggest threat to a cyclist's life. My personal experience is different - I find the greatest danger to me to be vehicles emerging from a side road or roundabout exit into my path. Followed by overtaking vehicles passing too close. But I'm not a statistically significant sample, and maybe my experience is down to the way I cycle. Which may not be the way an 'average' cyclist cycles.

Anyway, any measure that might really bring positive results at the traffic lights ought to be considered.
 

Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
left turns by long vehicles are the classic fatal accident, them skip trucks especially

the others are more common, granted, tend not to be fatal though
 

Arch

Married to Night Train
Location
Salford, UK
Not quite what Pete's looking for, but a trick I learned from my driving instructor, and perhaps something everyone on here already does, is to get used to looking not just at the lights as they apply to you, but to get clues from the pedestrian man lights and, if you can see them, the lights on the crossing road. I was taught that if I could see the other lights (sometimes you can see them directly, sometimes you see the light reflecting on the hood of the lamp - esp at night) I should use them as a cue to when to put the car in gear, get ready to release handbrake, find the biting point. Nowadays, I apply the same thing to cycling. On any route you do regularly, it ought to be possible to know the various sequences of the lights, and roughly how long the gaps between the various changes are. Along with watching the main lights of course, I use these cues to tell me whether I can safely filter forward, when to be ready to push off if I'm stopped, whether I might get through by slowing down and not stopping because the light is about to go green, because the red man has just lit up..., etc.

It's also a good discipline, just because it keeps you alert and aware waiting at the lights, instead of switching off a bit...
 
Tynan said:
that's exactly what they do, they focus resources on the big killers

doesn't mean they ignore MND

just like they spend money on cycle safety but they'll only spend so much, diminishing returns and all that

face it, the sorts of people that cycle up the insides of long vehicles at junctions are going to do that whatever you paint in the road

get as angry as you lie, them's the facts

don't think you bringing your mother into it helps at all


I think it did. Puts a human face on what you are saying. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't bother trying to improve safety for cyclists? Should I just join the huge groups trying to improve safety for drivers?

Remember drivers have the AA, RAC, car manufacturers, car loby groups etc all trying to improve the lot of cyclists. Who do we have, the CTC? We have to shout loud to get anything done, so you attitude of why bother is very poor.

I will continue to shout as loud as I can and if what I do saves just one life (who knows maybe even yours) then it will be worth it.

I really hate the 'look after our own attitude'. :smile:
 
FatFellaFromFelixstowe said:
I cannot see that working. Just look at the amount of idiot drivers who already enter asl's, block ped crossings and stop in painted hatch areas. There is no way they are keep out of this.

I think it could work (at least most of the time). There has been a campaign recently by a local newspaper here in Glasgow that took photos and published the registrations of cars that were sitting in hatched areas. It certainly made a difference.

What we would need is enforcement, and education.

I think it would be a shame not to try something like this just because we think people will break the rules. Why not try it in a few places (with camera enforcement) to see if the idea has any merit? What harm could it do?
 

4F

Active member of Helmets Are Sh*t Lobby
Location
Suffolk.
magnatom said:
What we would need is enforcement, and education.

Personally I think the best education would be to cyclists. I have not had a problem with filter lanes or asl's however I grant you that at the same time only 5 miles of my commute is through reasonably heavy traffic.
 

Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
magna, isn't the 'look after your own' attitude the one you're arguing?

and of course campaign as you see fit, I'm not saying you shouldn't in any way
 

Tetedelacourse

New Member
Location
Rosyth
Good ideas Pete and Magna. I think they would both make things safer for informed, considerate and alert cyclists.

But I'm with Tynan inasmuch as I think you'd need to inform and educate cyclists in order for them to be effective, and to be used correctly. And if you're truly able to do that effectively, then there'd be no problem in the first place, because you'd train them to stop early and safely in traffic.

Maybe the focus needs to be on the whole cyclecraft style approach to cycling, as opposed to additional road markings / apparatus.
 
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Pete

Guest
Arch said:
...to get used to looking not just at the lights as they apply to you, but to get clues from the pedestrian man lights and, if you can see them, the lights on the crossing road
Some good points there. Often, however, you can't see that valuable 'auxiliary' information until you've got to the front of the queue anyway, by which time you've committed yourself. Approaching the particular junction in question for me, with a vehicle already there waiting, the only sign I have to go on is the traffic lights facing my way.

magnatom said:
I will continue to shout as loud as I can and if what I do saves just one life (who knows maybe even yours) then it will be worth it.
I think the quote that sums it up for you here, magna, is the famous one from Schindler's List:
"Whoever saves one life, saves the world entire."
 
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