100% with you in that. The ban on fossil fuel powered cars is happening. However that does not mean an end to them. Now you can raise fuel duties and force the change for everyone but before you do that you best have your sh…t together and have charging points etc all readily available. At the moment we are behind and I’m not seeing any need for me to rush out and trade in mine . I would be more inclined to buy a hybrid instead !
First electric car experience
- Thread starter figbat
- Start date
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Pale Rider
Legendary Member
If you are in the habit of buying a new car and selling it after three or four years then you can fairly reliably predict depreciation.
However, the market for older EVs has yet to be established because there are still relatively few of them.
I suspect there's going to be some very disappointed motorists when they attempt to part exchange their eight year old EV which they bought when it was three years old.
A million mile battery would largely cure that problem, but I am always wary of the speed of implementation of new technology.
If all Teslas had such a battery tomorrow, it would still be another eight or 10 years before the average motorist in the secondhand market would reap the benefit.
It's unclear to me when or if Tesla's million mile battery will reach the market, but I've lost count of the number of promising lab bench battery innovations which are never seen again.
Also worth bearing in mind energy density of lithium ion cells has hardly improved in the last 10 years.
Extra range at present can only be achieved with extra batteries, a situation which is unlikely to change anytime soon.
Unless someone can design a far more efficient motor, but that's another technology which moves forward about as fast as a Tesla with a flat battery.
But we have now got really good range in EVs, quite sufficient for most people's day to day use. Very few people need to be able to drive over 300 miles per day in a standard domestic car. My Diesel always *says* it has a range of 550 miles fully fuelled. It doesn't. I have yet to drive more than 150 miles without someone needing a wee / food / drink etc.
My longest journey this year was Surrey to Alton Towers about 160 miles. Not enough range for a short range Tesla to get there and back. But with a 20 minute top up at the services - no problem. In a Leaf - still doable, but might require two stops if not well planned.
I think we can take it for granted that there are people like yourself who remain deeply sceptical and who cannot let go of their ICE mindset, but as prices come down and the push continues, I think we will easily see many more EVs on the road. The biggest spanner in the works is likely to be the Tesla Robotaxi when it comes online. I think at that point more people will start to question whether they need to own a car at all.
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There are several design factors involved but electric motors are already 80-90% + efficient.
And of course Diesel / Petrol motors are only about 40% efficient tops.
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
I do wish you would stop telling me how I think, particularly when your crystal ball is so opaque.
I will buy a car which is most suited to my needs, so in that respect I couldn't give a stuff what powers it.
You seem to accept that range is not going anywhere anytime soon, so we are largely stuck with what it currently available.
About 200 miles sounds OK, but it takes no account of range anxiety.
Even with a diesel, I've had occasional concerns when getting stuck in a big jam on the motorway or when doing unplanned extra miles due to navigation fails, or if my chosen filling station is unexpectedly shut or has no diesel.
Any driver will want to keep some miles/an hour or two of crawling time in hand for such eventualities.
Thus a range of 200 miles is really closer to a comfortable range of 150 miles or less.
Plenty for most fixed commutes or shopping trips, although in my case I can be dispatched elsewhere at short notice so I need to start a working day with plenty of fuel just in case.
Longer journeys which go entirely to plan could be managed, although I'm not very encouraged to learn that faster charging can cost more than diesel.
Paying more for refuelling which takes significantly longer may make sense to you, but it seems daft to me.
And of course Diesel / Petrol motors are only about 40% efficient tops.
A lot more headroom for development which presumably has stalled due to upcoming legislation.
The battle appears lost, but I wonder if an ever more efficient ICE could make better use of one finite resource - oil - than batteries make of another - precious metals.
cougie uk
Guru
Batteries are too integral to the design of the car. If you really need to - you can take out the battery pack but it's a big operation - it's not going to happen instead of recharging.
cougie uk
Guru
When batteries are taken out of their EV's - they haven't reached the end of their useful life. It might be that they don't hold as much charge as they once did - but they can still be used for storage in areas where density of energy isn't as critical - so they can be used as batteries as normal storage in businesses or houses. I know one football stadium is using ex car cells as backup for their lighting.
Electric cars don't cost more than diesel. Most people will charge at home so that's what 15p per kwh if you have no deals. Charging on the motorway is double that cost - 30p per kwh. Guy Martin found a charger for 70p per kwh. It's almost like he wanted to make it expensive...
Some people can charge entirely from solar - so basically free electric. You don't often get free diesel ?
cougie uk
Guru
My wife's cousin has the ZS - they seem very happy with it.
I believe they are 5.4Kw, so more of use for overnight charging than a quick boost. Residential areas are being targeted for the 60% of homes that do not have a driveway.
Again am utterly amazed how much 'love' for the combustion engine there is on a pedal bike forum!!!
I thought I was a 'petrol head' having previously dragged my wife around the world in pursit of the smell/sound of the best combustion engines around.....
Yet after owning an EV for a few years I couldn't careless about the combustion engine, there isn't one thing I miss about combustion cars and frankly I kick my self for not making the switch to EVs even earlier.
Honestly what is it about combustion engines you love so much?? I've been there, done it and got the T-shirt. Trust me the grass is actually greener on the otherside for once!!
cougie uk
Guru
Lamppost charging is already a thing in Liverpool with https://www.ubitricity.com/
Yes there are quite a few schemes targeting hard to reach areas. Around us we have Charge my Street a community enterprise that works to get facilities into small villages and areas without off street parking.
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
I'm getting fed up of repeating this.
There is no 'love' for the petrol engine, but there is some for on demand personal mobility.
It's merely about the best and most cost effective way to achieve that.
Currently (ho-ho) that is undeniably a car with an internal combustion engine.
That could change, proposed legislation suggests it will be a forced change from 2030 for those who buy new cars.
Those of us who buy used will still have the option of petrol/diesel or electric.
I will buy whatever makes the most sense at the time, as I do at present.
cougie uk
Guru
Have you heard of Bicycles ?
