For sake of fairness

[Origamist]

Yes, I much prefer shiny and pricey porteur racks on completely incongruous Austrian step throughs. With mickey mouse bells.

However weirdly enough non-cyclists just don't seem to see the problem. Too busy making up completely unjustified myths about lycra louts I guess.

Just you wait 'till a sunny day when the sun coruscates off that lovely polished alloy and dazzles a toddler who, discombobulated, runs out into the road and is decapitated by your Parisian porteur rack! Mumsnet, the Daily Mail etc will be all over it - a civvy clad cyclist, with a lethal, 4X4 bull-bar like rack, murdering infants in NE London. Lycra will be pushed down the hate agenda and utilitarian cyclists will come under the spotlight and will soon garner scorn and derision: deathly/drab coloured clothing (hoodies!), dangerously sedate speeds (motorists having to overtake!), no helmets, (combustible!) dynamo lighting, (battering) racks and upright riding (it means your neck will go floppy). Is that want you want?!

 

[Ravenbait]

Same as inappropriately aggressive driving - excess speed and poor anticipation. So sprinting away from the lights only to slam the brakes on at the next red (or worse just go through), accelerating through amber instead of stopping, filtering when the lights are about to change, filtering when you can't see there's space in front, pulling round buses and cars without looking behind you. That sort of thing.

Basically, prioritising speed and the fastest line over courtesy and predictability. Fine in the countryside on an empty road, never appropriate in the urban environment.

I love the way you've made a blanket assumption on how I ride based on the fact that I commute wearing lycra, in Edinburgh, although we've never met. Unless you think that only middle aged men wear lycra to commute, or being a girl somehow means that the lycra I wear is a fashion statement, or renders me immune. I can assure you that I can go quite quickly even in an urban environment without being lax in anticipation or braking excessively etc etc. If you find that you can't well I shan't argue, but your experience is not indicative of everyone's.

In my experience the folks commuting to work wearing lycra are less likely to sail through red lights or show poor anticipation. They've invested in their transport choice and it shows. The worst riders round here are the jean-clad hooligans on BSOs.

So without wishing to deny you the right to your opinion, based on my experience your assertions are at best accurate only for your locality. We get a hard enough time from non-cyclists without having to put up with the lycra-lout appellation from other cyclists.

Sam

 

[gambatte]

In my experience the lycra clad rider is not the one speeding/braking/speeding at junctions. They're much more likely to be the ones, clipped into pedals, attempting to gauge their approach to the next light to coincide with the green phase. Therefore negating the need to unclip or trackstand.

 

[ferret fur]

^ I think the important thing you guys are missing is that if I see someone on a bike & They Don't Look Like Me it's perfectly reasonable to make all sort of assumptions about them, their lifestyle, their attitudes and riding abilities. It just saves so much time compared to judging them as individuals.

 

[BentMikey]

Must admit I'm quite surprised by brokenbetty going off all half-cocked here on this. It's not at all what I imagined her to be like.

 

[brokenbetty]

^ I think the important thing you guys are missing is that if I see someone on a bike & They Don't Look Like Me it's perfectly reasonable to make all sort of assumptions about them, their lifestyle, their attitudes and riding abilities. It just saves so much time compared to judging them as individuals.

Not as much time as you save by refusing to consider anything you don't personally see.

In other news - I assume black taxi drivers will overtake too closely. Is that an example of undeserved prejudice as well?

 

[brokenbetty]

Must admit I'm quite surprised by brokenbetty going off all half-cocked here on this. It's not at all what I imagined her to be like.

That'll teach you to make assumptions

Seriously though, I think the relationship between physical activity, appearance and emotions is hugely underestimated on the roads. It's widely accepted that making a physical change can change your mood - as a trivial example, smiling makes you feel happy while frowning makes you angry- so I really don't see why everyone is so resistant to the idea that different styles of bike and cycle clothing might promote different behaviour in the rider. After all, if there's no difference in outcome between wearing a floral dress on a £50 sit up and beg or wearing replica team kit on a £5k road machine, what's the point of the 5K road machine?

We are happy to assume taxi drivers will pass too closely and white van men will cut us up because although not all of them do, enough do to make the expectation useful. We certainly know that non-cyclists notice what we wear and treat us differently . But when the spotlight is turned back to us, some of us really don't like it.

 

[BentMikey]

I assume black taxi drivers will overtake too closely. Is that an example of undeserved prejudice as well?

IMO yes. Taxis and buses are generally driven better than the average private vehicle. I have my own prejudice though - Addison Lee minicabs. I nearly fell off the other day when one drove beautifully around me.

 

[brokenbetty]

IMO yes. Taxis and buses are generally driven better than the average private vehicle. I have my own prejudice though - Addison Lee minicabs. I nearly fell off the other day when one drove beautifully around me.

Buses I agree, but on my commute route the black cabs are atrocious, especially at the A10 / Bethnal Green Road / Old St / Bishopsgate junctions where they see a road with a bike in as a handy empty gap to jump lanes.


Addison Lee seem to be improving - I've had a couple of noticeably well driven ones recently and can't recall any dodgy ones for a while.

My personal driver stereotype is that hassidic jewish men drive slowly but make space for no one.

 

[BSRU]

As someone who commuted in jeans for the first few years, changing to Lycra was something I should have done alot earlier, more comfortable and so enabling me to extend my commute to 25 to 30 miles a day, instead of the 8 in jeans.
For some of us commuters, commuting is our main form of exercise and we are unable to cycle at other times due to family commitments.
I have not seen any aggressive riding from roadies in and around Swindon.

 

[BentMikey]

I hope you will see though, that you really do have a severe lycra prejudice and that it's not warranted. Enough people have refuted all your points to hopefully make you think again.

 

[brokenbetty]

I hope you will see though, that you really do have a severe lycra prejudice and that it's not warranted. Enough people have refuted all your points to hopefully make you think again.

Not really. They've all just said "hey, I wear lycra and I'm not aggressive" (ironically, often quite aggressively )

I categorically believe that if you put the same person in lycra on a road bike and in normal clothes on a sit up and beg, they will not ride the same way in both situations. To claim otherwise is as silly as saying the same woman walks as fast in stilettos as she does in trainers because what you wear doesn't matter.

 

[400bhp]

I assume black taxi drivers will overtake too closely. Is that an example of undeserved prejudice as well?

Racist too.

 

[gaz]

Of course people will cycle differently if they wear different clothes. I choose to wear cycling specific clothing whilst i commute and use my bike for exercise because I do so at a pace which means i sweat. I'm not going to cycle in the same manor if I have to walk around shops in my clothes afterwards.
Does that make me aggressive?
All depends on what you class as aggressive.

 

[400bhp]

In other news - I assume black taxi drivers will overtake too closely. Is that an example of undeserved prejudice as well?

So, what do you do when you see one approaching from behind? (assuming you actually look behind)