Formigli Made to Measure Carbon Frame

[Hacienda71]

A friend of mine is about to upgrade his Spesh Allez, he is getting seriously into his cycling and has a budget of £2000 to £2500. He has been offered a made to measure Formigli frame at circa £1500.
I don't know the brand, they look high end, anyone have any knowledge or views of them?
I can't help thinking he would get one hell of an off the peg bike for the same money. The Formigli would be built up with 105 and Fulcrum 7's or similar.

http://www.formigli.com/cm/Home.html

 

[uclown2002]

£1500 frame with £140 wheelset?

 

[Hacienda71]

Exactly. I just think for a couple of grand you could get a pretty high speccd off the peg bike.

 

[uclown2002]

You can get a hellava bike of the shelf with that budget.

 

[jowwy]

But a bespoke custom build would be very special indeed.

 

[vickster]

Could presumably have better wheels if going to top end of budget, depending on groupset. Can get some good deals on Shimano, theres always a deal on somewhere

 

[Globalti]

They look like vanity bikes to me. I would stick with a well-known brand with good after-sales backup. Tell him to go and read up on the Cannondale Synapse, Cycling Plus has just voted it the best endurance bike this year.

 

[amyrides]

A friend of mine is about to upgrade his Spesh Allez, he is getting seriously into his cycling and has a budget of £2000 to £2500. He has been offered a made to measure Formigli frame at circa £1500.
I don't know the brand, they look high end, anyone have any knowledge or views of them?
I can't help thinking he would get one hell of an off the peg bike for the same money. The Formigli would be built up with 105 and Fulcrum 7's or similar.

http://www.formigli.com/cm/Home.html

If you are interested in a small company, a custom bike, take the time to research, call and talk to the company in person, ask others who own own bike. In this example, call Formigli, get the names of the cyclists who own one, call them, ask them direct. I understand an unknown bike is a leap of faith to purchase. But ask the company, ask the people who own one, and don't listen to some cyclist online who don't know what they are talking about.
Bespoke/custom cannot be compared with "well-known" brands aka Asian produced stock frames. I think anyone who calls a bike they have never seen or ridden in person, "a vanity bike", shows they have been "bought" by the marketing of the strong big bike manufacturers. Cyclists have 2 options: to buy Asian, 98.8% of frames, that are made with cheaper carbon, stamped out, and machine painted, or you can buy handmade/custom. Same goes true for purchasing a car, right? As an example, can you imagine someone saying that a Bugati is a "vanity" car and that you should stick to "well known" brands, like Honda. A Bugati costs what it does, and is what it is. It is in a different category. Just as bespoke companies are. Small brands that have survived the Asian overtake of bicycle production like Pegoretti and Formigli, are in their own category. You can't compare their quality or their price to "well-known" brands. BTW the only reason bike brands are well known is because they have the marketing dollars to buy marketing, and they get those marketing dollars because they have the margins to do so. The only way to get those margins is to produce in Asia.

Handmade is handmade- and it will always be small and not "well-known", because the money those companies have goes into production and materials. A Formigli frame takes a month, all day, to make by hand. The carbon to make one Formigli tube costs more than a completed monocoque painted frameset. Also, these cyclists who speak poorly about small companies, without riding the bike- how do they know? And how can they be so sure they are right? In my opinion, if you have ridden a bike, talk about it. If you haven't then have some humility. Also, "well-known", doesn't mean BEST. Until you ride a product do you really know. Lastly, to compare a handmade product's cost to a manufactured bike in Asia is just ridiculous. Again, like cars, no guy will compare a Bugati to an Acura. Guys who would do that would get laughed off the street.

 

[Hacienda71]

If you are interested in a small company, a custom bike, take the time to research, call and talk to the company in person, ask others who own own bike. In this example, call Formigli, get the names of the cyclists who own one, call them, ask them direct. I understand an unknown bike is a leap of faith to purchase. But ask the company, ask the people who own one, and don't listen to some cyclist online who don't know what they are talking about.
Bespoke/custom cannot be compared with "well-known" brands aka Asian produced stock frames. I think anyone who calls a bike they have never seen or ridden in person, "a vanity bike", shows they have been "bought" by the marketing of the strong big bike manufacturers. Cyclists have 2 options: to buy Asian, 98.8% of frames, that are made with cheaper carbon, stamped out, and machine painted, or you can buy handmade/custom. Same goes true for purchasing a car, right? As an example, can you imagine someone saying that a Bugati is a "vanity" car and that you should stick to "well known" brands, like Honda. A Bugati costs what it does, and is what it is. It is in a different category. Just as bespoke companies are. Small brands that have survived the Asian overtake of bicycle production like Pegoretti and Formigli, are in their own category. You can't compare their quality or their price to "well-known" brands. BTW the only reason bike brands are well known is because they have the marketing dollars to buy marketing, and they get those marketing dollars because they have the margins to do so. The only way to get those margins is to produce in Asia.

Handmade is handmade- and it will always be small and not "well-known", because the money those companies have goes into production and materials. A Formigli frame takes a month, all day, to make by hand. The carbon to make one Formigli tube costs more than a completed monocoque painted frameset. Also, these cyclists who speak poorly about small companies, without riding the bike- how do they know? And how can they be so sure they are right? In my opinion, if you have ridden a bike, talk about it. If you haven't then have some humility. Also, "well-known", doesn't mean BEST. Until you ride a product do you really know. Lastly, to compare a handmade product's cost to a manufactured bike in Asia is just ridiculous. Again, like cars, no guy will compare a Bugati to an Acura. Guys who would do that would get laughed off the street.

Do you by any chance work for Formigli, or a retailer/distributor of their products or a similar framebuilder?

Do you ride a Formigli framed bike?

The reason of my post is precisley to find if anyone here has tried or owns a Formigli. A public forum I would say is a better place to ask this than via a carefully selected customer that the manufacturer puts you in touch with. Surprisingly I know members on here who ride custom built frames hence my thread.

Whilst I can see the merits of a handbuilt made to measure frame, I can also see that a frame of any calibre can be let down by poor/lesser components. To use your analogy, If you bought a Buggati Veyron, you would be laughed off the road if you specc'd it with cheap bucket seats and inferior alloy wheels from a retailer like Halfords.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

In this example, call Formigli, get the names of the cyclists who own one, call them, ask them direct.

What a completely silly suggestion. As someone who buys bikes at the higher end of the market and has owned bespoke branded bikes such a Parlee and others I can tell you as fact the some cycle companies are shady.
If you call them and ask for details of an owner you are in many cases likely to be given the details of a spanner monkey or sales man.
Also if some random Joe called me and started asking questions about my bikes he would be told to do one and I would be rather annoyed at any company which had shared my details without permission.
Quality brands such as Parlee have earn't their reputation through hard work and great customer service.. Nobody needs to call Parlee as their customer base is exceptionally easy to find and loyal. They say how great the brand is no matter if you ask or not.

Bespoke/custom cannot be compared with "well-known" brands aka Asian produced stock frames. I think anyone who calls a bike they have never seen or ridden in person, "a vanity bike", shows they have been "bought" by the marketing of the strong big bike manufacturers.

You can compare and should do as something bespoke and hand made should be nicely finished and compare or exceed a mass produced finish..Why would you buy something bespoke if it was not special?
I have also actually have ridden a Formigli as well, not that it means anything.

Cyclists have 2 options: to buy Asian, 98.8% of frames, that are made with cheaper carbon, stamped out, and machine painted, or you can buy handmade/custom.

Formigili do not manufacture carbon components themselves but purchase their carbon tubes from a company In Florence who also make components for Ferrari and Ducatti to name but a few high profile customers. The carbon they use is exclusively supplied by Torayca a large middle eastern composite supplier.
No composite bike frames are stamped out and the suggestion is just plain silly.

When Boeing started production of the 787 dreamliner it secured $6US billion in carbon fibre from Torayca and 89% of the composite engineers on the project came from Japan as the expertise in the composite industry was not available in Europe and the same was said for carbon quality.
The quality of the materials sourced from Japan and the skills of the composite engineers in the region are second to none.

Small brands that have survived the Asian overtake of bicycle production like Pegoretti and Formigli, are in their own category.

Yes they survive on a group of devout enthusiasts who value things of beauty, things built with passion. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what you are into however it does not automatically make it superior to a wind tunnel bike produced by CFD.. They are just different.

You can't compare their quality or their price to "well-known" brands. BTW the only reason bike brands are well known is because they have the marketing dollars to buy marketing, and they get those marketing dollars because they have the margins to do so. The only way to get those margins is to produce in Asia.

You can compare and should do. Hand produced brands are vastly more expensive and the manufacturers do not assume the costs they pass them onto the consumer. Going by what you are saying you can't compare Canyon who sell direct to the consumer with Specialized who have their own dedicated dealer stores.. Its survival of the fittest in business.

Handmade is handmade- and it will always be small and not "well-known", because the money those companies have goes into production and materials. A Formigli frame takes a month, all day, to make by hand. The carbon to make one Formigli tube costs more than a completed monocoque painted frameset. Also, these cyclists who speak poorly about small companies, without riding the bike- how do they know? And how can they be so sure they are right? In my opinion, if you have ridden a bike, talk about it. If you haven't then have some humility. Also, "well-known", doesn't mean BEST. Until you ride a product do you really know. Lastly, to compare a handmade product's cost to a manufactured bike in Asia is just ridiculous. Again, like cars, no guy will compare a Bugati to an Acura. Guys who would do that would get laughed off the street.

Your having a laugh that a Formigili tube costs more than a monocoque painted frameset. First of all without specifying the frameset or the cost your statement means little. Show me evidence of this.

@Hacienda71 if your mate wants to have a closer look at a Formigli Asiel RF let me know

 

[Hacienda71]

What a completely stupid suggestion. As someone who buys bikes at the higher end of the market and has owned bespoke branded bikes such a Parlee and others I can tell you as fact the some cycle companies are shady.
If you call them and ask for details of an owner you are in many cases likely to be given the details of a spanner monkey or sales man.
Also if some random Joe called me and started asking questions about my bikes he would be told to do one and I would be annoyed at any company which shared my details.
Quality brands such as Parlee have earn't their reputation through hard work and great customer service.. Nobody needs to call Parlee as their customer base is exceptionally easy to find and loyal. They say how great the brand is no matter if you ask or not.



Wrong again, you can compare and should do as something bespoke and hand made should be nicely finished and compare or exceed a mass produced finish.. I have also actually have ridden a Formigli as well, not that it means anything.



Formigili do not manufacture carbon components themselves but purchase their carbon tubes from a company In Florence who also make components for Ferrari and Ducatti to name but a few high profile customers. The carbon they use is exclusively supplied by Torayca a large middle eastern composite supplier.
No composite bike frames are stamped out and the suggestion is just plain silly.

When Boeing started production of the 787 dreamliner it secured $6US billion in carbon fibre from Torayca and 89% of the composite engineers on the project came from Japan as the expertise in the composite industry was not available in Europe and the same was said for carbon quality.



Yes they survive on a group of devout enthusiasts who value things of beauty, things built with passion. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what you are into however it does not automatically make it superior to a wind tunnel bike produced by CFD.. They are just different.



You can compare and should do. Hand produced brands are vastly more expensive and the manufacturers do not assume the costs they pass them onto the consumer. Going by what you are saying you can't compare Canyon who sell direct to the consumer with Specialized who have their own dedicated dealer stores.. Its survival of the fittest in business.



Your having a laugh that a Formigili tube costs more than a monocoque painted frameset. First of all without specifying the frameset or the cost your statement means little. Show me evidence of this.

@Hacienda71 if your mate wants to have a closer look at a Formigli Asiel RF let me know

Cheers for the offer. I will let him know, not sure he has made up his mind yet.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Cheers for the offer. I will let him know, not sure he has made up his mind yet.

Just want to be clear its not my bike, but the guy I know who owns it is a pretty decent fella and loves talking about the damn thing.
Ive ridden it and all I can say is I have never felt the need or desire to buy one.

 

[SteCenturion]

Hi-y'all.

There is a guy (British) who v recently appeared on this forum personally.

He owns his Carbon - bespoke bike company & has recently been featured at length in a monthly cycle mag (could be cycling plus or cyclist).

Anyone remember him ?

Bet Mr H does ?

Just another option for a bespoke build & I bet you could speak to him at length or maybe even visit (possible ?)

FWIW - I believe that we are now in a new 'Golden' age of cycling/cycle manufacture - what I mean by that is that a lot of 'off the peg' stuff is extremely high quality & we have bespoke builders who can create your dream bike in almost any county in Britain.

Take a look at Legend - also Italian made bespoke frames with eye watering prices.

My bike cost £1500 in a sale reduced from £2.5k & although this is an astronomical amount to me - a pittance to some.

Got to say my 'off the peg' bike is stunning (to me) & I could only be more delighted if it came with free Di2

(I can but dream).